Wrestling Thread [Archived] • Page 716

Has Jinder even had a match besides the two championship matches? Or Orton for that matter? It's like they exist in a different universe than the rest of the show

 

Jinder had his mat classic with Mojo two weeks ago

 

Revival were getting booed until the end of their run. Sasha was fantastic at turning the crowds against her. Eric Young has gotten solid heel heat at the live shows I've been to recently. Same with AOP. Ciampa will be the biggest heel in pro wrestling when they start up the program with him and Gargano.

But like I said in an above post. I don't think it really matters anymore if the crowd is singularly booing or cheering a person. That's antiquated logic, in my mind.

 

I never knew I wanted that. But I really really do.

 

Sidenote: Maybe pro wrestling is actually better when you focus more on match quality as opposed to if someone is doing enough to make the crowd boo or cheer them? A lot of people write off NXT because of the Full Sail crowd, but NXT matches largely get the same reactions at TakeOvers away from Full Sail. I'm not the biggest purveyor of indie shows, but from various matches I've seen, I get the sense that crowds are pretty similar when you get two big name guys in a ring. Okada/Omega had crowds cheering both dudes and you've got Meltzer shitting out a bajillion stars for them. By and large, WWE's main roster is one of the only big name places that insist on this ONE TRUE HEEL and ONE TRUE BABYFACE archetype in the majority of their matches, aside probably from TNA. And if you asked most wrestling fans, wouldn't you think the majority of people would rank WWE and TNA near the very bottom in term's of enjoyment you get out of shows/matches? Is there not a correlation there?

 

Well booing I can agree with, but it is still fucking great when the whole arena is unanimously popping for someone together. But like @preppyak said. They can not write in a true babyface to save their lives right now.

 

I was about to say, the business is evolving in a HUGE way the past few years and WWE is having major trouble adapting to it. Signing some big names? Doing a good job. Using them effectively? WOMP.

 

I know ratings are down, but in terms of cultural relevance, pro wrestling is hitting another wave. WWE specifically has all the talent they could ask for and more. Their biggest shows each year generate buzz and revenue, not just for the WWE but for the host cities. And the company's own apparent stubbornness (read: Vince's) to change and evolve is very likely to squander all of that.

 

I think once Vince is gone, the women's division gets sorted. Its crazy how the managed to get Peyton and Billie over as women who could potentially win the title despite being lower-midcarders at best. We didn't really get anything like that with Jinder. Hell, we didn't get that with Carmella, who they've attempted to build for almost a year.

I think time will ultimately tell. We may still get shit when he bites the dust. Writing for these characters every single week is a tough gig. NXT having them show up every three weeks ain't bad.

 

no doubt that out of all of the things that will improve once vince is gone is the womens division. Cause even though what we have is a trillion milles better than what we've had the past 14 years or so, it can still be a trillion times better

 

Ellsworth got a shout out on Jimquisition for winning MITB. lol I love the internet.

 

The whole face/heel dynamic is such a pain in the side of getting good matches

The best WWE match of 2016 was between two faces. The match people most want to see is between two people who are currently faces. There are so many good matches and feuds left on the table because WWE tries to stick to the "face vs heel" formula so hard.

 

face/heel sells them toys

 

"Dixie Carter is an idiot and then she brought in these other idiots like Hulk Hogan." -Scott Steiner

 

Yea what a shame ellsworth grabbing the briefcase was. Was it too simple to have Becky reaching for the briefcase...Ellsworth dumps her (a possible omg spot if Becky wants to do it).... and Carmella climbs the ladder herself still.

Because In the end that's the big shame. The image of Ellsworth grabbing the briefcase sucks. Zero issue with a manager helping. Zero issue with a heel win...but yeah I definitely feel the complaints on this one.

And you still get "controversy" points with the heel win and Ellsworth dumping Becky off the ladder. Oh well... I am looking forward to carmellsworth with a briefcase though

 

@Mick in here spitting the truth about the company.

There's just so many things that WWE seems to be doing wrong -- which I know makes me/us sound like pretentious dickheads, scolding a billion dollar company for being inept at their job, but they seem to be so slow to change for the market.

-The quality of matches just is not that good. That, to me, comes down to the style that they wrestle on the main roster. It's just largely boring. NJPW/ROH/NXT have a much better blend of technical stuff, flippy shit, power, whatever. It feels more focused on telling a story in the ring where as it feels like on the main roster the focus is more "watch these guys kill some time while our announce team try to scream at you why you should care."

-The commentary on the main roster is awful. I watched Okada/Omega without english commentary and it was wonderful. All other organizations run laps around WWE's commentary. It just comes across as loud noise trying to make things feel dramatic. No amount of yelling will draw people in without a quality match, characters the audience can invest in, and a story being told physically in the ring along with the weeks worth of build of promos.

-The promo's are awful, almost across the board. More freedom for the good talkers and more help (i.e.: mouth pieces) for the bad talkers would do wonders.

-Stop allowing wrestlers to only exist within their own feuds. More interaction with other wrestlers, like someone else mentioned earlier, that isn't just a six man tag.

With how much WWE can put across a wonderful story in their video packages, they should be absolutely killing the game given the talent on the roster. Imagine a better commentary team, wrestlers being able to do more interesting move-sets, not forcing heel/face dynamics, all coupled with their production quality? WWE should be able to give every wrestling fan everything they could possibly want, but they just fall short on so many things.

Again, I make it sound so easy and I know I'd fail and there's a million things I don't know/don't see/don't hear about that make it more difficult than just "be better," but it could be so much better.

 

Mmm it should never be forgotten at how awful the announce team is and how big of an issue it is too.

 

And that, by and large, comes back to Vince, too! I've heard Michael Cole call good matches before! We know both Corey Graves and Tom Phillips are really good at what they do. Mauro is fantastic. JR is a legend. Shit, I think even Byron Saxton could do well if he wasn't shoe horned into playing this dopey-ass character. I think both Corey and Tom do as good of a job as they possible can on Raw and SD with allowing matches to breath, but offering context and direction when it's needed, especially given that we know Vince is yammering in their ears the entire time. Unfortunately you have guys like JBL or Otunga or Cole who either totally encompass what Vince thinks or are completely willing to fold to Vince in their eardrums. I get you need to pick your battles if you want to stick around with that company for a long time (which I'm sure has at least a little bit to do with Mauro's departure), but it seems so completely obvious where the faults lie. Like the main roster itself, it's not for lack of talent.

 

but the thing is, is it ALL vince? I really really enjoyed Mauro when he was here. That was exactly what I was looking for in terms of "unique fun voice" that made matches more interesting. With all the restrictions his talents were able to still shine through

 

Nobody is shy about the fact that ultimately, at the end of the day, Vince decides everything. He okay's characters, storylines, any and all changes. Literally everyone who has ever given an interview on the topic of how decisions are made have said the same exact thing about WWE. And the other people in top positions with influence? By and large Vince's noted yes-men. Kevin Dunn, Michael Hayes, etc etc etc.

Vince has obviously gotten things right in the past and forever changed the wrestling business. I respect him in that regard. Dude had a vision. But he is pretty inflexible in that vision. Think about the way WWE itself has evolved over the last 30-40 years. You really only have two major shifts. The drying up of the territories, and then the move into the Attitude Era. The latter only happened because Vince has legitimate competition that was threatening his bank account. All things considered, though, Vince has been pretty unwilling to evolve with the times.

 

Yeah, think of how wildly different Smackdown and RAW are week to week. Thats a product of different writing staffs, different wrestlers, etc.

But think of how similar Jinder's look is to Roman's, how similar their match style, promo style, etc is...and you remember its one guy with the ultimate say. Jinder/Cena is probably Vince's dream title feud, when any combo of AJ/Sami/KO/Nak would get him a far, far better match.

Im just glad we got 6 months of Jeri-KO, because in Vince's world that should never have happened

 

edit: Rest of the PPV schedule

• Raw PPV (No Mercy) 9/24 - Los Angeles
• SD PPV (Hell in a Cell) 10/8 - Detroit
• Raw PPV (TLC) 10/22 - Minny
• Survivor Series 11/19 - Houston
• SD PPV (Clash of Champions) 12/17 - Boston

 

TLC in October? huh

 

i mean more so announcing quality. While their are a bunch of parameters that everyone needs to follow and it makes it impossible for many people to succeed, I still feel like talent can still shine. Corey and Muaro are the only ones who have shown an inkling of 'good wrestling announcing'.

 

People like Mauro and Corey have done a great job of performing in their own voice despite Vince, but Vince is preventing other talented people that aren't able or willing to do that from shining by being overly controlling. The prime example of that being how great Cole is whenever he calls a show that Vince isn't at.