Wrestling Thread 3: Dan vs. Cam • Page 1214

My problem is that society today just says (and i'm talking generally here) fuck you you misogynistic asshole go to hell and you're trash, instead of opening up healthy dialogue to it. In no way do I defend Dave here, but it's something I talk about with my girlfriend a lot (pretty strong feminist) and it's that there is such a split in society today because when people are uneducated or unaware of certain ideals and say something problematic that could very well be due to being naive, that they are just pegged as shitty people usually and no one who is educated comes to them willing to teach at all. Sure some people won't want to hear it but I think there is a large group who are genuinely clueless as to what they did wrong and would definitely listen. I believe Dave is the latter. He needs to be educated.

And this is nothing against you Clucky I think you are a bright and solid dude. It's just an issue I have with these types of incidents in general.

 

Yeah, this is most definitely the first problematic thing Meltzer has said and I'm sure he's now a changed man and we won't be having this same conversation in a month.

It's not like he totally missed the point in his "apology" to Peyton and then went on a forum where I'm sure everyone treats him as god and claimed he's just misunderstood.

I'll believe he's truly willing to learn from this and isn't just a trash person when he actually stops doing shit like this.

 

But this isn't the first time Dave has done something like this. He regularly rates women's matches lower than matches of similar quality done by men. Stuff like this just further gives off the vibe that he really just doesn't like women's wrestling.

Rather than hoping some people get Dave to stop being a misogynist, I'd rather see Dave reach out and be like "hey I need help doing this". People don't tend to change unless they actually want to.

Does that mean we should write Dave off as a garbage person and never give him any chance of redeeming himself? Of course not. But we should still definitely call him out when he is wrong, and even in his apology I still think he's wrong.

 

How did I get quoted in here?

 

I never said this was his first time doing it.

Great call him out when he is wrong, that is so okay, but there's no willingness to educate him unless he asks for it? C'mon. Why not just try to educate him (or anyone) to make the world a better place instead of waiting for them to validate you and ask you for help?

 

It's ego bullshit

 

And guys i'm never coming from a place of talking down to y'all or thinking you guys are the bad guys. Because you are not, you are absolutely right, I just think how we handle it needs to be looked into deeper and there needs to be more considerations.

 

Because 99% of the time people in this situation are just blowing smoke and aren't actually willing to learn. Otherwise he would have done so already. He's a 60 year old man. If he is truly willing to learn, he can do that. It's not anyone else's responsibility to come to him and teach him. It's not like there is a lack of women telling their stories related to issues like this in the zeitgeist.

If this truly is that moment for him, great. But you'll excuse me if I'm doubtful.

 

That's casting such a broad stroke though. I just don't get how being open to calmly teaching someone about what they said was wrong is a worse alternative than calling them a piece of shit.

I doubt this is the moment for Dave but I truly don't think Dave is a bad person. I'm just talking in general though more so. I think it's something interesting to think about. Cause where you are right is that it's not like there's a lack of this stuff going around for people to learn from, it's out there. But i can honestly say I was someone in the dark about this kind of stuff, mostly because I was detached from society for a solid 4 years, but if it weren't for this website and some of it's users i've reached out to personally on here I would totally be in the dark about it still. It wasn't that I had bad intentions or didn't respect women, I just had some inherently wrong belief systems and until people constructively made me aware of certain things I was clueless without bad intentions. That is just where I am coming from, and I think there are a good amount of people that were/are in my situation. Dave is someone twice my age and has a ton more inherently shitty belief systems or habits and is also someone who has just rambled whats on his mind for thousands of hours on recording for multiple decades.

It doesn't excuse it, but I just don't like pegging people as BAD when they really aren't doing it intentionally (of course some are definitely doing it intentionally). This has nothing to do with Dave, i'm not typing this all just for him. It's just an interesting conversation ive had with my significant other the past week.

 

My issue with this is that it’s so fucking easy to treat women the same exact way you would treat men.

 

But they weren't treated the same for a long time, whichs sucks a lot, so people are used to that.

When you put it that simply it actually is mind blowing.

 

This x36884874874587483958392936403

 

are you new to this site?

 

Yeah, and what I’m getting at is that’s total BS because is actually quite easy to treat everyone the same. I know that’s not how it has gone historically, which makes it that much more infuriating to me. This is something that should take a decent human being almost zero effort at all to achieve. It’s astonishing the lengths we will go to excuse this type of behavior from men

 

I never said I wasn't "open" to him learning, I just don't buy that he actually means it. Hope I'm wrong.

See, but your approach is exactly my point. You reached out to people and tried to learn, no one had to force you into it. I've just never cared for the "they didn't know any better" idea. Not to be the "It's *current year*!" guy, but in the world we live in now, no one should get away with using that excuse. It's so easy to access all the information you could possibly need to educate yourself on issues like this. It just feels like the modern day "Oh don't mind grandpa using racial slurs, he's from a different time" to me. Anyone that wants to learn can and I have no respect for those who choose not to.

 

ive never known Meltzer to be misogynistic though? cause he rates women matches lower?

 

I reached out because I post on an internet forum. Most people dont. Clearly the way things are is not working. So change must occur I believe that change occurs in communicating. Being stubborn and shouting THEY SHOULD KNOW BETTER BY NOW gets nothing accomplished and only builds more animosity. So I mean cool stick to that plan, but you're just gonna get more pissed off as you get older.

 

fuck you dan

 

jk hi

 

But my point is it's NOT an excuse but it's a point where you can open up healthy communication rather than pointing from a distance and saying yeah that person sucks then go on with your day.

 

Dave Meltzer’s Troubling History with Women in Wrestling.

 

Oh, I'm well aware.

 

Anyways. I gotta go work. Good talk y'all love y'all

 

hey cam's back