Wavves Bans Racists and Homophobes From Shows • Page 5

Right, because all police officers are racist and homophobes.

All of them

Every single one

(This is sarcasm if it's not translating well over the internet and I hope your post is too)

 

The nitpicking about "every single police officer" is stupid. Not all men, all lives matter, not all cops, they're all the same bad argument.

 

All cops are bastards so

 

Also I'm pretty sure any cop out there that actually is good would be the first to tell you that there's a serious problem with police in America

 

I agree with most of this, and I am not downplaying the systemic racism in law enforcement. However, I think sometimes people don't realize how bad the police brutality has gotten to people of any age, color, religion, etc. Everyone is a target, and people of all colors are being murdered by police at alarming rates. According to the link below, in 2016:

-238 white people shot and killed
-123 black people
-79 Hispanic
-''Other'' 23
- 46 Unknown

That is 509 people across many spectrums shot and killed by police in America, and we just started July. There is a serious problem out there. IMO, there are 3 IMMEDIATE things they can do right now:

1. Make every cop wear a body cam
2. Completely revamp all training programs in every department
3. Start hitting these guys with criminal charges

Again, I am sure this will get misconstrued even though I am posting facts. This is no attempt to marginalize any movement, any ethnic group, etc. I support anyone's rights to gather and initiate change. My sole point was to convey that these cops are killing at an alarming rate, and they seemingly have no care who they hurt because they are above the law. It is sad and people of all types need to push for change. If they are hit from enough different fronts, maybe something will happen to make things better.

Fatal force: A Washington Post investigation of people shot and killed by police in 2016

 

No different than all muslims are terrorists IMO

Not right to label an entire group

 

It's not the same thing at all

 

Okay

Only when it's convenient

 

Nope. Strike two...

 

Nice strawman buddy.

 

Can this be strike 3 because I'm out of here

lol

 

If you're not going to listen to anyone trying to educate you, then you might as well leave.

 

It's pretty different. Muslims don't have a huge amount of institutional power in the United States and powerful, untouchable, blindly loyal unions to hide behind. They also do not have an institutional role within capitalism to uphold private property and protect the assets of the rich while hunting the poor for crimes both rich and poor commit. I get the idea behind "labeling entire groups is bad," but from an institutional point of view you can abstract "police" into a specific role that disproportionately harms poor people. This role, in the view of many, is bad. Muslims do not have any such role in the upholding of the status quo.

 

Nah. Hit by pitch. Beanball to da face.

Take your base.

 

If you have nothing of substance to add, don't post. Posts containing just lol have no worth. If you don't know what a strawman is, I can explain.

 

#3 is where , in my opinion, it all goes to hell because of what had been to referred to as "overcharging"

If you ever read Alan Dershowitz analysis of the charges against The Baltimore cops, he blasted Marilyn Mosby, the prosecutor, for charging cops with such damning charges even though, at the time, their appeared to be little chance of proving beyond a reasonable doubt (which now has been confirmed in 2 of the trials , possibly a 3 if you count the "hung jury" result). Dershowitz viewed the "overcharging" as a way to please public opinion. As a result these cops do technically get justice in the eyes of the law by not being proved guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. We saw the same thing happen with George Zimmerman. The original prosecutor didn't want to proceed with the trial because he knew he couldn't get the conviction the public wanted and he was replaced.

 

Intent and impact are two very different things. People can have whatever reasons they want for voting for Trump - they do not have the option of divorcing the implications of that support from their actual intent in doing so because that just isn't how it works.

And as a queer Latina woc, anyone who tells me that they consider Trump the "lesser of two evils" just told me enough about their privileges/priorities and the way they see the world for me to not want to associate with them. That's the thing about systemic injustice and the way privilege skews perspective - people voting for Trump don't have to "see it that way" for it to be that way in reality for those of us Trump would harm. Bigotry does not have to be in the form of active, conscious hate in order to be perpetuated.

Food for thought.

 

Agree, and wasn't sure how feasible it would be, based on the history of these cases and how hard it is to make anything stick. I just thought that if there was some way to hold them liable criminally, we should do it.

 

Anyone who wants to say generalizing cops is the same as generalizing a religion or race needs to take 30 seconds and glance at this

Blue wall of silence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As long as this bullshit exists in every police community in the country then there is no such thing as a good cop, because any good cop would have ruined their career by reporting on the bad ones. They're active in corruption at worst, and complicit in standing idly by while it happens so they can save their own ass at best. Races and religions don't have unwritten rules to prevent them from ever being scrutinized where you'll have your life ruined if you do.

So, as long as they're following the same sort of codes of silence that the mafia and gangs follow, then yeah, they're all bad.

 

I get what you are saying, I do, and I agree with it for the most part as well. However if you look at the reasons a majority of black people have been murdered vs. white- it's ridiculous. It's hate-based murder. Not to downplay police brutality because I do agree that it's everywhere but in the last few years it has spiked out of control. At least we can both agree that major changes need to happen.

 

Hmm. I agree with some of your points (at least as far as the U.S. goes) but I also see where dubey was coming from. The fact that Islam has produced a lot of terrorists is also an institutional problem. Islam doesn't have much power in America, like you said, but there are plenty of countries were Islam has supreme power--the countries where people who denounce Islam get killed for it. Another comparison could be pedophilic Catholic priests. Did you see the film Spotlight? I think it would be harmfully incorrect to assume all Catholic priests are pedophiles, but then again there is also a very clear institutional problem causing this psychological horror to occur in priests all around the world. My dad is a police officer, so we've spoken extensively over the issues going on in the country, and from his perspective, a lot of these atrocities can be traced back to very bad police academy training--something that my dad's currently working toward finding a solution to.

I point this out not to simply try to support a user who's probably banned from this thread by now. Instead, I point this out to hopefully make clear that we need to address these kinds of problematic patterns on both micro- and macro- scales. We need to incriminate/correct the perpetrators while also trying to reform and revamp the institution as a whole to keep more perpetrators from being created. Sometimes, an entire institution needs to go. But as I wrote earlier, in times like this where it seems like an entire institution is failing, it's easier to want to get rid of it than try to fix it.

 

I've got your link pulled up to read, but I just wrote ^^^ about why I think the religion generalization can be valid. I'm not trying to start any fights but I'd be interested in your feedback to how I laid it out.

 

The scary thing about those stats is those are just the numbers of people shot and killed. Now imagine the numbers if you include shot but survived, beaten, or physically harassed/abused by police. I would actually love to see the data on that. Thanks for the civil reply btw.

 

As I was writing my post, the Catholic church was actually the only legitimate institution I could think of that came close in this country. Again, it's not to say that every single kid who wants to be a cop when he's 6 is a bad person, or any kid who wants to be a priest, but I think if someone were a truly decent person they wouldn't just ignore that shit when they got into the real world and found out what those organizations are really like.

It sucks for anyone who might legitimately want to help people in those ways, but the catholic church and the police community made their bed and now they have to accept it. There has to be a point when people think "man, maybe this isn't the greatest group of people to be associated with."

Also, I think there's a fairly large distinction between Catholics and "the catholic church," so I don't see it as generalizing a religion, rather than a very powerful representative of those who practice it.

 

in case you didn't know, the cops in Louisiana were wearing body cams and both cameras fell off pretty early into the situation. from what i've read / found through cursory glances, it seems that a lot of body cams fall off with body motion / movement, so this is definitely not a solution, as designed / attached to uniforms now.