Thrice - Palms (September 14, 2018) Album • Page 52

The EITS moment makes even more sense now.

 

It ... was The Stranger and other publications doing hard research and reporting and many former members speaking out that finally led to Kyle Firstenberg, Dave Kraft, Scott Mitchell, and Lief Mo speaking out and enacting the collapse. I think you're putting way too much credit here and it's kinda weird to think that when someone joins a fucked up cult to think "well, he's gonna expose it!" ... which, he didn't do, for years, while reporters and former members were talking about it. So, yeah, I'm not gonna give much credit for that period of time. After, sure, I'm glad to see the changes. But those years were very bad and hurt a lot of people and we shouldn't pretend like they weren't.

This was 2012. Two years before Dustin and others left:

https://www.thestranger.com/seattle/church-or-cult/Content?oid=12172001

 

yeah i remember being super disappointed when he joined the church because it really was common knowledge what they were about and stood for. but, if his lyrics on TBEITBN are any indication (pus the letter) he seems super regretful about being affiliated with them at all. dustin's always struck me as being a stand up genuine guy, he made a mistake joining the church but i can forgive him since he's done way more good on his own than that church ever did.

 

For sure. Living in the PNW, I knew people at that church, knew people impacted by it, and had seen it all first hand. It really upset me. I remember writing about it on AP.net at the time.

This sorta stuff was all known at the time:

He preached that homosexuality is a sin, and he once said anointing a woman as an Episcopal bishop was a step toward voting in “a fluffy baby bunny rabbit as their next bishop to lead God’s men.” He’s joked on stage about masturbation and oral sex.

In 2006, after evangelist Ted Haggard was caught with male prostitutes, Driscoll appeared to blame Haggard’s wife, writing, “It is not uncommon to meet pastors’ wives who really let themselves go. A wife who lets herself go and is not sexually available to her husband … is not responsible for her husband’s sin, but she may not be helping him either.

The bigotry was very much out in the open.

And totally with you, not many people I respect in the music industry as much as Dustin for sure, but I don't wanna whitewash that period of time either because it was bad and it hurt people I knew.

 

And further on that topic, since we talked about it before and it always comes up ... I really think deifying musicians/celebrities almost always ends badly.

 

And, to clarify: I'm not saying anyone is a bad person, I'm saying we shouldn't anoint saints.

 

Is “pound sand” the phrase of the day? I’ve seen it so much today!

 

I did too. Which then got it stuck in my head. And then I used it. It's weird how that happens.

 

I had a friend that was affiliated with those churches in grad school. He REALLY looked up to Dustin... he had no idea (my friend) of any of the terrible stuff that was going on within the Church.. that was probably Circa 2012. It's a real shame how it all went down, I think its gotta be a huge regret of Dustin's to ever get involved.

 

Yep agree with all this.

 

Driscoll was horrible, but if Dustin played ANY role in helping bring he and his guys down from the inside, I’d say the ends justify the means at this point. Even if going there in the first place was an exercise in poor judgement.

It was a very weird time when Mars Hill was basically the Christian rock Hollywood church though. Glad that era is over.

 

Throughout history, when an organization is overthrown (especially a private one), it usually comes from within. Don't get me wrong, I was outraged throughout Major/minor's cycle since I knew that news was coming eventually. It made me question my allegiance toward a band and individual I worshiped. But, keep in mind, someone he deeply trusted sold him on that place––just like many of my friends were once sold on it.

It also came at a time when his father had just died. Thus, I can understand why he prioritized security for his young family since Thrice wasn't at the peak of their career anymore. I absolutely wish Dustin had shown better judgement given the information that was already published, but it's a mistake he's made amends for (as well as one can) and now regrets. Ultimately, the sins of the organization were not committed by him.

Is he guilty by association? Perhaps. Had he not done what he did, it would be less of a question.

Knowing what I know about Dustin and what I've witnessed personally, I knew that if he saw any kind of injustice or atrocity committed, then he'd stop at nothing to bring that place down. Does he deserve sole credit? Not at all. But like I said, at that time, it was always going to take someone on the inside to finally burn that place to the ground. The point is: I wasn't surprised that he helped galvanize a movement against that monster. In fact, I was waiting for it.

Look at the number of people that have tried to expose The Church of Scientology once they're on the outside. And yet, they remain. If that place is to ever be brought down, it will also require the efforts of multiple people from within.

I'm just glad that place is gone, and that the victims can rest easier now. I'm also relieved, to a lesser degree, that the wool is no longer pulled over Dustin's eyes as well as my own friends.

 

Man, this thread really bums me out some days. I'm gonna go do other stuff before I get angry and say something I shouldn't. So, instead ... I'll just repeat one more time: Joining, co-signing with your fame and following and bringing people to, and defending for years, a known -- at the time!! -- extreme bigot was wrong. It was very, very, very, wrong. It was an atrocity at the time. Ignoring and whitewashing that away is not cool.

 

I completely agree with you. Clearly, my words aren't getting that point across well enough. All I'm saying is, I understand what led him to make these mistakes. The same people that recruited him, also recruited my close friends. I couldn't get through to them either. Protecting people from their own judgement rarely ends well. Sometimes, people have to experience the consequences of their mistakes to finally understand what the rest of us already knew.

 

Mike, I think Jason is frustrated bc it seems like you are making excuses for him.

 

Can we move on and actually talk about Palms now? This is a touchy subject and it's run its course in this thread.

 

I'm not sure if the bass lines in The Grey are really that amazing, or if the sound of them are just so beefed up it makes me think it's amazing.

Either way, I love it.

 

Good moderating! Not sarcasm haha

 

Yea the grey has incredible bass tones

 

I know that's how it sounds, but I can't stress this enough: I was outraged. I wish he had shown better judgement given the information that was out there. My continued fandom was on the fence. However, I know how he was wooed, who did the wooing and why he didn't see clearly. Again, even people in my own life fell for this organization via the same recruiters, something none of us could believe at the time. Such organizations are dangerous because they know EXACTLY how to get people to act against their better judgement.

 

Sorry for going on about this, guys. And yes, those bass tones already make up for Ed's disappearance throughout TBE.

 

One reason I like the live albums so much is because Ed's bass stands out so much more.

Another reason is because Dustin's voice sounds fantastic on older songs.

 

Yeah, I love hearing current Thrice essentially cover old Thrice songs.

 

I think the bass tone in The Grey is a little much. Unfortunately I think it is kind of a step down from TEISTBN's production.

 

I'm glad that we can now hear Ed and Teppei, but yeah, TBE sounds so good overall. I get why they chose to split up tracking the way they did, but Palmquist achieved such a great sound via one month of tracking in his studio.