Star Wars Universe (Rebels, Clone Wars, Comics, Books, Video Games) • Page 45

I don’t see why she would/should. Star Wars has been thriving under her leadership. The films have been great and have made a shitload of coin. Even if Solo only breaks even, it’s far from the disaster everyone seems to be making it out to be. She’s doing just fine in my book.

Why are you starting to agree?

 

I've enjoyed every movie that's come out to date, plus Rebels, the few novels and comic books I've read have all been great. So overall, I think the criticism of her performance is overblown.

The firings are a little concerning, but I think you could argue she did what had to be done in those situations.

The only thing that I think she deserves real criticism for are the directorial and writing choices she has made. She touts Lucasfilm's commitment to diversity, but every single director (and writer?) has been a white male.

 

She won't hire women/POC to make movies (and fired the two white guys I liked best out of the pool they've hired) and I've only actually liked one of the four Disney Star Wars movies, but from all basic critical and commercial metrics for success she's doing more than fine.

 

Yeah I’d agree with those points and was my general perspective up until recently. Definitely can’t argue the movies have been successful critically and financially. Also agree that she’s made he best out of bad situations and a great producer in general.

Will respond in a bit, because im busy and it will be a long post to hash out everything that’s contributed to me changing my mind and also to make sure I’m not coming off as just another entitled hater of hers.

 

I agree on the point that a bunch of white dudes involved in those positions for the films isn't great for the commitment to diversity. I think the people working in the story group, writing the novels and comics, and working on the TV shows are more diverse groups. While Dave Filoni was at the helm for the animated shows, I think the team overall was more diverse (but I'm not 100% certain on how diverse).

 

I wish they didn't feel the need to only make movies with 200M budgets. Do a low budget film set in the universe that tells a deeper and more interesting story. You can still have the background of the Empire or rebellion or whatever you want to tie to what we know, but there's so much that could be explored without the need to tie to known characters and big budgets.

 

Yeah, that's what the anthology films should be IMO

 

TFA and TLJ are my fav SW movies. As mentioned, my biggest issue is the lack of diversity with the directors and writers. That needs to change and it’s getting incredibly frustrating. Otherwise, I’ve been really thrilled with what they’ve been releasing.

I was listening to Keep It, the Crooked Media pop culture podcast, and two of the hosts had a really fun time with Solo. I was surprised to hear that they even went to see the movie. They are very casual fans and one host even commented how some of these movies are probably going to be more enjoyed by causal fans (since there’s all the Solo controversy). It was nice to hear their perspective.

 

Good question. First off I don’t think she’s terrible or destroying SW or any of that shit. I loved or liked the 4 movies and have been impressed she’s produced 4 solid movies despite all the drama, but theres honestly just a lot of things that have accrued over the past 4 years that lead me to believe she’s not the best person for the job going forward.

The most obvious things is the directors. If it was one time, okay, but 4 separate firings/changes in 4 years is indicative that it’s a general ineptitude to get the right directors for the projects you want. Also we are in a weird time. Managing a studio means not only making good movies but now incorporating it into an interconnected universe. Or at least that’s what they feel like they HAVE to do. There’s arguably only been 1 example being the MCU that has been able to be successful in this.

So many companies are trying to rush to do this now and trying to build these massive movie series. The Amazing Spiderman series, Power Rangers, Guy Ritchie’s King Arthur, Dark Universe, and most notably the DCEU. Every single one of them got ahead of themselves announcing future movies and sequels and spin offs and ostensibly were more focused on building a cinematic universe and connecting it all than the characters and stories themselves and they all failed. They cared more about the franchise than taking the time to build a foundation of characters you care about and go slow. That’s why so many of those franchise seem so overstuffed, convoluted, and have with so many characters and 3 villains per movie and all trying to introduce stuff for the future.

I’m starting to see this in Star Wars. This is everything we know about going forward

Episode 9
A Rian Johnson trilogy
Benioff and Weiss series
Favreau Tv series
Star Wars Rebellion
We just got a Han movie which hinted that the there will be more movies
A Boba Fett movie
A possible Lando movie
Obi Wan hasn’t been announced officially but is reportedly already being worked on

Thats 11 Movies and 2 shows. That’s a lot of content to announce to the public for us to get excited about and a lot of projects to be juggling in general. After Solo underperformed the report is now they want to spread the movies out. So are these 10 or so movies just going to be spread out for the next decade and no more movie announcements? No woman directors or POC for the next ten years? Are they going to delay or cancel some of these? Basically it doesn’t really seem like they have a plan. It seems like they are simple brainstorming things and saying “hey that’d be a good idea. Let’s do that! Fans will love a Lando movie because they love Donald Glover. Fans will love the GOT guys making an Old Republic movie. Fans will love a Boba Fett movie by the guy who just made Logan.” Without much deliberation about WHY these particular movies should be made or what the stories will be about. Rian didn’t have any idea what his trilogy was about when announced. I doubt anybody had anything written before the announcements. I get that happens but it’s too many projects to have this philosophy for. It’s DC announcing 3 joker/ Harley Quinn movies. Batgirl. Suicide squad 2. Birds of prey. Lobo. Justice league dark. Flashpoint. Gotham city sirens. Shazam. Deadshot. Nightwing. Etc... when they can’t even get fans to buy into their current shit lol

It’s starting to feel like that to me I guess. Obviously SW is not DCEU and its making bank and has been successful but it’s heading in the wrong direction where it feels like there’s no plan and no focus on story.

The version of Solos story we got didn’t need to be told IMO. It didn’t really give us anything new. Most of the movie spent its time answering questions about things we previously were introduced to about Han. How he got his blaster. How Han met chewy. Why the gold dice are special. How Han got his name. How Han met Lando. Why Han and Lando don’t get along in ESB. Why the Falcon looks beat up. How Han did the Kessel Run in 12 Parsecs. Han shooting first. Chewy ripping arms off. As much as I had fun, it felt like the story’s and movies purpose was to explain these things rather than give us a great story.

The overwhelming majority didn’t want a Solo movie and were vocal about it but you made it and also made it intending to spread it into a new series of movies. Now it underperforms according to projections, failed to really please old fans or get many new fans and have to decide do you continue or not.

Next, you see the response to Solo and THEN decide to announce a Boba Fett movie, another movie that had the same or even less appeal for the core fans as a Han Solo movie.

Before that she announced Rian would get his own trilogy before the TLJ even comes out and see how fans respond to his vision of Star Wars. The explanation for Rians trilogy was Rian pitched her no story and just said that it would happen totally detached from everything we know about Star Wars and she’s like boom. Here’s a trilogy. Am I glad because I love TLJ? Hell yes, but many people dont care and I could totally see her being reactive now and pulling the plug on him, especially with the sheer amount of projects announced. And I’d be pissed. On top of that a Lando movie is being rumored seemingly only because Glover is in the role whos a massive draw and not because you have an awesome story to tell about Lando.

Basically from my perspective it seems to me like Kennedy has no real plan or personal vision of what she wants these projects to be or where she wants Star Wars to go. Ostensibly her announcements seem entirely based off the writers/directors brief ideas/pitches.

Then when they go through with it and she decides she doesn’t like it, there’s drama and creative differences because she never had a creative agenda in the first place. How do you get so far into Rogue One before you realize it’s too dark of an ending? How do almost finish shooting Solo before realizing it’s not what you want? Even if Lord and Miller weren’t doing well or not following the script, it shouldn’t have taken that long to make a move.

I assume there’s obviously some discussion about what the movie will be about, there’s an idea, there’s a pitch, and she picks the director. But I highly doubt theres much deliberation about what the story is going to be. The decisions are business driven and that’s why all those properties I mentioned before have failed to copy the success and longevity of Marvel.

Feige is a die hard fan and I assume has a big plan and generally knows what he wants because he knows and loves the characters and the stories he wants to tell which makes hiring the directors easier and more purposeful and invites better communication for a shared vision. Not saying that Kennedy doesn’t love Star Wars because she does but she doesn’t have a personal purpose for why she’s making these movies or a vision for them.

To exemplify that so much of the canon material that was claimed to going to be very intertwined and important with the movies and even purport to be apart of the “journey” to each movie have little to do with the movies. Holdos character traits were abandoned in shooting. Phasma has a whole book making it seem like she’d have a bigger role and barely has any impact. It was solely just to appease the fans that wanted more. The outer regions keep being teased in TV shows and books with no exploration at all.

There was seemingly no plan or vision for what 7,8, and 9 would be on Lucasfilms part. Maybe by JJ but not Lucasfilm. That’s why giving the mystery box to fans from one director who loves unanswered questions and then giving the onus to another director to answer those questions who doesn’t really care about those questions and telling him he can do whatever he wants rubs people the wrong way. I love TLJ (2nd fav movie of all time) and don’t think he intended at all to say fuck you to the fan theories or JJ or whatever. He just simply didn’t care about those dynamics. He didn’t care about Snoke. He didn’t care about the parentage of Rey. or Phasma. I’d argue he didn’t really care about the First Order, the resistance, or the state of the galaxy now that the new republic got destroyed. He was totally focused on the characters and their journeys. Which is cool but it shows a lack of purpose to why you wanted to tell this overall story.

We left off TLJ with destroying the big ominous bad guy, a new leader of the First Order, the First Order still not having control of the galaxy yet, The Rebellion being reborn and having to rebuild from 15 people and a Porg, Hux looking like hes going to try overthrow Kylo who just fucked up, Rey getting books to basically just start learning about the Jedi since she really hasnt had much training other than 2 lessons and playing with a lightsaber a couple times, Poe being the new leader, two of your main characters getting introduced for the first time in Rey and Poe, A romance between Rose and Finn and a hint that there will be a new Jedi Order.

Thats a lot of story points and dynamics to cover in the third episode of a trilogy. More importantly thats a lot of NEW story points that feel like they could have their own 3 movie arc. I like that I have no idea where episode 9 will go and happy where we are at, but it still feels like this is the start of a totally brand new story and trilogy of the Rebellion overcoming the First Orders reign of the galaxy and a new Jedi Order. I feel like theres not enough time to basically start all these new things and give them a conclusion in a satisfying way. I hope Im dead wrong, but I think if it does fail, it will be because of the lack of a plan or vision.

It’s also being reported that Maulwas decided late in the process for solo and there were many different people they were thinking for that shrouded figure. John Kasdan always wanted him but had to wait for approval. I love the character and the cameo was cool but it really added nothing to the story and once again shows there isn’t a plan or any focus on story. It seems more arbitrary, to give us a “WOW” moment, and to set up more movies.

In a nutshell it seems like she’s so focused on the franchise and future business of Star Wars just like those other franchises that failed and unfocused on the now and the creative aspect of Star Wars. The story group seem only relevant to put in Easter Eggs in movies and make sure that nobody breaks the continuity of canon (which they have in the books). Unlike these other franchises, SW has been successful, but the foundation of this new era is shaky and they keep piling on more projects.

I think I changed my mind though. I don’t want Kennedy to leave Lucasfilm because she has been successful and been able to make bad situations right, and seems to be good at the business side of it all. Ive liked the movies, Ive liked the Favreau and Benioff and Weiss hirings and am excited for a lot of the projects, but i would like her to relinquish some of her power on the creative side to somebody like Filoni, Favreu, or Feige (i know it’s a pipe dream). Just anybody who is a Star Wars nerd and is obsessed with all aspects of it and is a natural creative mind and a great storyteller.

If you read this entire book of a post, thank you. Actually turned out to be a little more critical and bitter than I intended so hopefully I didn't sound like an entitled fanboy and invite more argument. I dont want to fight about this shit. Just how I see it.

 

Read and will probably reread again. Definitely a thoughtful perspective. Not sure if I agree 100%, but think you have some great points I haven’t considered.

 

Ahh to make billions of dollars and be insanely successful and produce the best Star Wars run we’ve had in 30 years .. and have people calling for your head and to replace you with men lol

 

Thanks man. Would definitely be down to hear your disagreements. I feel like many won’t agree with the 7,8,9 stuff or with the Filoni being that high up, which I understand.

 

Had a feeling that was coming. I understand if you didn’t read my book lol but I did come to the conclusion that I don’t want her fired or to step down just to relinquish power on the creative direction.

Also money isn’t everything. Transformers made billions of dollars as well before finally people got jaded of it.

And to your point about replacing her with men, I mentioned those names because those are the only people I knew that are great story tellers and are Star Wars junkies. Would love if a woman got more creative power if she’s a great storyteller and a big Star Wars nerd. Hell I wish Patty Jenkins was running The DCEU and I want Claudia Gray to write movie scripts for SW.

That’s all I’ll say to respond cuz I don’t feel like arguing.

 

We definitely fundamentally disagree with who “great storytellers” are.

 

Well...at least not completely

 

I think it’s kinda annoying how Marvel has programmed everyone to think. These films aren’t purely based on source material like Marvel films, where you have origin stories, sequels, and team up movies based on comics. SW is this massive universe based on previous movies from 40 years ago, mythology, and some EU material. I’m not sure it should operate like Marvel. To me, I feel like George Lucas would probably prefer for creatives to make their own movies in this sandbox then just follow one narrative that’s all leading forward to some big event movie.

I keep seeing mostly middle age OT guys complaining about this tbh. Not every SW movie needs to be an event. It’s not a big deal if some are Ant-Man level as mentioned. The whole “specialness” that these guys talk about too really rubs me the wrong way. Maybe for you the specialness is going away with so many movies begin released, but it hasn’t for those of us who see Rey, Finn, Poe, Rose, etc on the big screen.

Lucasfilm really needs to improve their communication and I think that would help. It’s hard because most of this gets released during those Disney shareholder meetings. They have Celebration next year to announce their next phase or whatever, let’s hope they do that to give fans an idea on what to expect when. That would be the perfect opportunity since after Ep 9, we need a clearer picture of what’s going on.

I think what’s so tough as well is that SW fans investigate and pick at everything. We need to know every little detail (hey, did you hear that the production name for Ep 9 is Trixie ha, but what could it mean /s). You just don’t get that level with other franchises. I’m sure there’s been plenty of worrying stuff that’s happened behind the scenes at Marvel but simply not as many people are interested or talk about it.
But really, I have no idea on how to run a franchise so what am I really saying

 

Speaking of Kennedy... Male fans are the worst

 

to add to that

 

Over 8,000 votes which is crazy, w/ TLJ in the lead

 

Fair enough. I can see how comparing everything to marvel is annoying and unfair because it is totally different especially with the source material and team up aspect as you put.

I didn’t mean to say that I wanted it to be like Marvel in that sense and in fact I’d rather it NOT aim to be marvel (like those other companies). It really can’t just because it’s a totally different style. It was more just pointing out Feiges passion/vision and having a purpose to tell the story

I don’t like that “special” comment either because I’d be down for more Star Wars per year, but only if they are stories that need to be told. I love a Benioff and Weiss movie series and. Rian Johnson series because they are all going to be radically different and totally new that expand Star Wars. Give me more.

A Han Solo trilogy, Lando, Boba Fett, Jabba, Yoda movie not so much. Not because I don’t think they could be good, but because the intent seems entirely based off pumping out as many movies as possible and capitalizing off of nostalgia (when I’d argue at least half of core fans that your targeting dont want these movies in the first place.) basically I don’t want them to pump out movies just cuz

There definitely is over-analyzing of this franchise especially from people (like me) who have no idea how to run a studio. I agree. But it’s fun to discuss if it’s grounded discussion and not just slander.

I just think when you have this massive of a franchise, having a person with more of a creative mind/vision in a higher position of power equal to Kennedy as a partnership is important and even necessary to have a sustaining and fruitful franchise as opposed to being solely operated by business heads who’s sole job is to make money and decisions reflect that, which is what I’m kind of getting a sense of I guess.

 

This Kennedy slander is too much. She has more creative talent and eye in her little finger than almost anyone alive. Her resume speaks for itself. 60 films, 8 Academy Award nominations, and over $11 billion worldwide including three of the highest-grossing films in motion picture history. Amblin Entertainment, The Kennedy/Marshall Company ... like my fuuuuucking god her career is insane.

 

Kennedy > Feige. It's not close. And all the male nerds that worship that dude are wrong.



37 years. Give her the respect she deserves in this industry. She saved fucking Star Wars.

 

Yea, I won’t pretend to like every decision she has made... but overall, I love what they have given us. It is such an amazing time to be a SW fan.

 

It's weird to see so much hate directed at her. I knew there were misogynist critics of all of the Disney sequels, but I thought TFA and Rogue One were pretty widely loved outside that loud minority

 

Exactly. I’m excited about everything for the first time in quite a while. And I like the movies way more than what almost any other blockbuster studio is doing. And that includes Marvel.