Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Rian Johnson, December 15, 2017) Movie • Page 18

I watched The Force Awakens with my daughter last year and she claimed not to like it. Said she likes some characters but not the movie. I'm about to start watching the other movies with her to see if she gets into the series as a whole. not sure if I should start with ANH or TPM, since it's clearly a kids movie

 

A New Hope is the best starting entry in the franchise. Everything that comes after it takes so much from it I don't think it makes a ton of sense to start anywhere else.

 

Yes, I know, they can all presumably do the same things. I'm only commenting on what we see. Jedi are more tactful which is the main reason they win fights with Sith.

 

Except for, most notably, live forever...

 

I love that this thread has devolved into a debate between Jedi and Sith.

I'm still Team Neither.

 

if they're living forever, how come we don't see them. how come they aren't in control. seems like a lie was propagated to a young and naive anakin skywalker

 

yeah I was more into Rebel Pilots as a group than Jedi or anything

 

Rogue and Wraith Squadron from Legends. Far more interesting than most of the Jedi teams.

 

What Sith has lived forever? In canon.

 

Also, don't the Force ghosts ensure some Jedi continue on forever?

We have yet to see a Sith force ghost. I know somewhere someone said Sith can't do it, but I don't know if that's still canon.

 

You're the obscure book canon guy. You tell us.? I read there was 1 or 2 back when everyone was speculating about who Snoke is in VII.

It's also part of the plot for Ep 3, no? Palpatine said his master conquered death and tells Annakin he can protect Padme from ever dying... So I take it there's some Sith god alive in the Star Wars universe somewhere.

 

can Force Ghosts even manipulate their sorroundings?

 

I'd go A New Hope for sure.

 

and then Palpatine killed him in his sleep.
yes, there are some far out theories that he "survived" and is back now as Snoke, but, right now, in the canon, Plagueis is dead. it is also not clear if Palpatine ever actually learned what his master claimed to have.

I think the Sith seem more powerful because there are only two (give or take) ever around at a time, while there were countless Jedi during the Republic. the Sith were willing to do a lot of things and use a side of the Force the Jedi weren't. the main downfall of the Sith is almost always their hubris, though. they let their guard down because they believe their Force powers are superior, and the Jedi (or even other Sith) can take advantage of that to overcome them. see Obi v Maul, Ani v Dooku, Obi v Ani, Luke/Vader v Palpy, even Palp taking out Plagueis.

 

OK yeah Plageuis. Also being immortal is different than being able to die by being chopped to bits or what have you. Maybe there's a better word than immortal. Bacteria immortal.

Having a Sith God would be a cool storyline imo mostly is sparking my interest in having a conversation about it. It's definitely presented in the films. Whether you think the character is lying or not is on you but the idea is on the table.

George Lucas doesn't have any subtlety in him to make that be dialogue and not have the audience feel as if he's presented us with this idea for no reason.

 

I thought the Sith God was Jar Jar...?

 

the Sith should just win at the end of this trilogy. Would be more realistic.

 

I thought the Sith God was Drake?

 

you do realize you are referencing a scene where that master was said to be killed, right? Like in that very conversation, that supposed master over death was killed by his apprentice.

Then later in the movie when Anakin becomes Vader, Palpatine says he doesn't know how to beat death yet.

There is zero evidence of an immortal Sith that I can recall.

 

My last comment addresses this "immortal" quandary

But if Palpatine goes back on his comments about beating death; I didn't remember. Which is really why I'm posting here to see what Star Wars fans think who know or remember everything about the plot.

Anyhow, the idea seems to be there in the plot for the audience to think about. Is it actually zero evidence if a character says it?

If it were true, for the sake of the conversation at hand, it would make the Sith potentially more powerful than the Jedi. That was the conversation itt.

 

The thing with Star Wars is that anything could become true. But at this moment, no one has conquered death. Palpatine and his master wanted to, but as far as we know, they failed.

It there zero evidence if a character says it? I would say you need to look at why the character said whatever it was. In this particular context, Palpatine brought this up because he knew it was exactly what Anakin wanted to hear. He knew Anakin feared for Padme's life and would want to save her more than anything. By dangling the potential power of controlling life, he was able to seduce Anakin. So, the only time this potential immortal Sith stuff, it was meant to seduce someone, not actually teach a truth. And there has not been anything beyond that in canon. So, I would say, yes, there is zero evidence.

All that said, yes, if it were true, one could argue the Sith are definitively more powerful. But I would argue becoming a force ghost makes Jedi more powerful than the Sith could ever imagine.

 

Jedi could live forever

Only to those with a lisp

 

When it comes to Legends I love the Sith. Really enjoyed the whole Darth Bane series.

 

By totally random events I never really bothered with any of the Legends stuff that happened before the prequels. Which is the majority of all that Sith stuff. Oops haha

 

I definitely recommend any of the Darth Bane books. The author of those books has also written other "Old Republic" novels which I haven't gotten to, yet at least. I never watched any of The Clone Wars series too much, but I know Darth Bane comes back as a ghost in that series for one episode.