Sexism/Feminism/Womanism Discussion Thread Social • Page 44

What a weird statement.

 

I recently came across a subreddit for guys who consider themselves "incels" or "involuntary celibacy." It seems to be a whinier version of The Red Pill where men who can't find a woman to have a relationship with blame all women for that. Some of their scarier ideals are that the government should "give" women to men so they can have sex. They also seem to be really into having relationships with underage girls because it's easier to have sex with a teenager than find a girl their own age.

Oh, and anyone who isn't an "incel" is called a "normie", because that isn't weird or anything.

Enter at your own risk. "Incel" - Involuntary Celibacy • /r/Incels

 

Definitely interesting seeing what influences their behavior or mindset, be it being rejected or having to pay child support, still disturbing

 

incels literally scare me, Elliot Rodgers is their actual hero

 

USC linebacker Osa Masina facing rape, sodomy charges - CNN.com

 

Student Killed Herself After University Mishandled Her Rape Report: Suit | Huffington Post

 

ISIS survivor Nadia Murad turns harrowing personal suffering into humanitarian initiative

 

I couldn't even read about it

 

There are several female incels (at least they claim to be) and it's a dynamic I'm not sure I grasp, but it points to how crazy ingrained ideas of sex possessiveness are, often in gendered ways but apparently not exclusively

 

random question/advice. Asking a significant loved one, in this case a female I'm currently dating, whether or not she's 'been checked'. I'm only now curious because of a talk we just had about our past sexual exploits and I'm now aware that her sexual history is a lot more 'woah' then mine. Internally, I definitely had a bit of a "chasing amy moment", but in the end, I got over it.... but we are sexually active without protection (probably not safe but that's a different topic)

a) is it okay for me to be concerned?
b) how do i ask without sounding like i'm shaming her past choices?

or do i just trust that she would tell me...but then i wonder if she's done her due dilligence...but then i wonder if that's my business..but

idk. advice!

 

Yeah that sounds like a sticky situation with dozens upon dozens of potential problems.

 

You're already sexually active. Just get tested. If you're concerned about your own health, that's the only way to know for sure. If she's not presenting symptoms, why would you bring it up with her?

 

this might be better suited for the sex thread too, but - it's good you're considering her feelings about this because a lot of people don't and it's really shitty, especially since safe sex is so important for all parties involved and all parties in the future. framing it is important and being sensitive to the aspect of it being an issue of personal health and individual bodies, which themselves are very personal topics.

to be frank, i would be more concerned that she might have an STI because the two of YOU are having unprotected sex rather than because of her history. sometimes folks with more experience use protection because they've seen a wider range of circumstances, sometimes they don't because they were never taught to, there's no great way to tell beyond what they're practicing now as a look into how they would have practiced in the past.

i would frame it as something for her and your best happiness and safety. explain that sometimes STIs can go undetected, especially depending on how severe a case is and how they interact with a single person's body. my best recommendation would be for both of you to get checked - even if you already have recently, you can offer it to show that you are doing this for both of your sakes.

also explain that, like i said in my second paragraph, this is not a judgment of her sexual history - it's just a practical concern that accompanies having sex with more than one partner, especially unprotected. if either of you do have anything, that is not a judgment on you either; it's just something that both of you would want to be aware about, so you can safely treat it and safely proceed to have fun with each other. like i said, the fact that she has a more active and experimental history isn't necessarily informative here, so i would consider not even discussing that.

this isn't "your business" because it isn't your body, but it is your business because you and she are in a sexual relationship and that involves your body too. you cannot force her to do this, nor should you make a judgment call if she doesn't want to. you do need to decide for yourself, if you can't know that you're practicing safe sex, what that means for your sexual relationship with her. for me, that's a dealbreaker - i'm a cautious person, and safe sex is a decision i find to be responsible and respectful for my body and for anyone i am with - and it may be shitty and hard if it comes to an ultimatum, but I don't feel comfortable having sex with someone of any gender if I can't guarantee my (and their) safety. maybe for you, you're willing to take your chances. (personally i don't super recommend that, but this is your call and her call.)

so keys:
- getting checked is best for everyone
- none of this is worthy of judgment or criticism - it's just trying to make safe decisions for your health and the health of people you care about, potentially saving you and them a lot of heartache, time, energy, money, etc in the future (whether that future is with you or someone else)
- even if she or you think you're clean, you can still be carrying something, and it's a good idea to both get checked, ESPECIALLY if you've had unprotected sex with other partners prior to this
- her health is her business, but this is about your collective health and a judgment-free conversation is justified.


these are just my experiences and thoughts as someone in healthcare. anyone with thoughts, please do chime in with agreement/disagreement/caveats/etc, especially if you perceive any of this to be unfair or gendered.

 

I 100% agree with @Spencer Control and I don't think it's gendered. Health is not something you fuck around with. It would be best for both of you to get checked. It's for your own health and safety. It's not being judgmental, it's being cautious. Better to be safe than sorry, and not end up having worse problems later on.

 

damn that's a good response haha. thanks.

I just wanted to bring it up in the realm of 'shaming' and is it okay for me to only have these concerns because of what I now know of her past history. I'm pretty proud of my stance on that kind of stuff as she repeatedly said how she didn't regret any of it, it was fun, and I was honest with myself that any sort of resentment I had was ALLLLL from jealousy. Any ounce of 'hey wtf" or 'damn thats so slutty' or whatever, i automatically caught myself and said 'dude...you're just jeaolous you never got to do that stuff so shut the fuck up'.

but then this morning i started to think about how we don't use protection and started to be like 'shit with all that stuff she told me...is that smart...." I was under the impression that she had a more "normal" and "simple" sex life, so it never crossed my mind.

is that a fair criticsm to have? I know you're going to say, "you should always be concerned no matter what", but is it fair to have MORE of a concern if someone's sexual history is more "woah".

 

Kind of? But someone can just as easily contract an STI from unprotected sex with one person as someone who has unprotected sex with 10 partners. From a sexual health perspective, the method and outcome is the same, so the variables like partner count (and whatever else may be on your mind) is, in a sense, irrelevant. Just my two cents!

 

Nothing to do with anything being discussed but novels by men can be so creepy. Even if their name was omitted from the cover you can always tell it's a man by the creepy, sexual, and overly detailed way they describe female characters. Even for girls/women who aren't meant to be seen in a "desirable" way it's like they legit can't explain them any other way.

 

Apple cultivates toxic environment for women, former and current employees allege

 

i try to think about this on the reg whenever i sit down to write any fiction or poetry or even lyrics to my own songs. keep physical descriptions to like one word + eye color. focus more on character/personality and stuff.

 

It's annoying when I talk about how I dislike something because of perceived misogyny and then a guy will come in and be like "well my friend/girlfriend/sister/etc didn't have a problem with it." Cool? Just speaking for myself bro, not for all women.

 

also just because they don't say they have a problem with it doesn't mean they actually don't have a problem with it, I know you know this hope I'm not mansplaining

 

Semi relevant:

 

My usual response is something along the lines of "Internalized misogyny is another matter entirely that has no bearing on what I'm saying."

 

Yep! and honestly sometimes I'm not even sure if it's internalized misogyny. I know people interpret things differently and our experiences factor into that so what may cross a line for me may not for others and that's whatever, but I hate how some men act like it nullifies what I'm saying. Like not all women might agree with me but my feelings are still valid.

 

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