Running • Page 82

Anyone ever dealt with jumper's knee? I got a shot in my knee last year for it. Helped out a bunch. Now its back and I'm just frustrated. Don't want to miss out on runs this year but the pain is irritating. I'm planning to go hard on strengthening for a few months before trying to jump into longer runs.

 

Did 8k today exactly four weeks out from my 8k - longest i've ever ran but i'm happy i did. Came in 6 seconds better than my estimated average mile (8:30), but have to get over some of the cramping that's set in and this nerve issue (I think) on my knee that's been acting up. Not sure if running in a brace of some sort would help as it hurts the most when putting direct pressure on it

 

Signed up for the Austin, TX marathon today. Literally a year away but these bigger city marathons never get cheaper than the first few weeks they’re open. Booking the hotel tonight as well. Having a 10 year rough estimate schedule in place to achieve all 50 states helps put things into perspective so it’s not so overwhelming to me.

 

Good for you, man. That’s awesome. I busted my ankle/had issues with motivation halfway through my training for the full marathon. Any tips for how to push from the half marathon to the full? Had no issues with the half but hit a wall with the full.

 

What kind of symptoms do you have? My understanding is that jumper’s knee is a form of tendinitis.

I would look at the shoes you use and make sure they are the right kind of shoes for the way your feet strike. I would also suggest doing the rice treatment throughout the day. And then beyond that, I would look at your hips. You might of have weak hips or one hip stronger than the other and it’s throwing your biomechanics out of alignment and your body is compensating for it. Persisting compensation could cause an injury with the knees. There could also be some dietary stuff at play, but for now, I would look at incorporating spices like turmeric that have good anti-inflammatory elements.

 

@Henry this is just anecdotal, and a different body part and injury, but CBD works wonders for the inflammation in my ankle from post-traumatic arthritis.

 

thanks!

i've been thinking about how to answer your questions without sounding like a cliche douche bag so sorry for the delayed (and very long after typing all this out) response lol.

it's hard to write out to have it make perfect sense, but for me, part of getting over the hurdle was knowing that it was just a number - 26.2 miles. it's kind of the same with a half marathon or an ultra. it sounds so daunting - 13.1, 26.2, 50K, 50 miler, 100K, 100 miler, etc. if tomorrow the make believe president of running said, "actually a marathon is now 24.2 miles" or "actually a marathon is now 28.2 miles" then it would just shift my thinking to, "ok now i gotta run that distance". of course thinking it is easier said than done, but as i think i've mentioned in here before, sometimes it's funny how a 5 mile run can feel longer than a 10+ mile run when i'm in my own head too much and thinking about the distance instead of just focusing on the run or my breathing or what i'm listening to.

one thing that i've used to combat that thinking is to run the distance my training plan says and then add an extra quarter or a mile or a half mile or an extra full mile. so it goes from thinking, "oh my god i just ran 13 miles!" to "huh, i ran 13 miles as required AND i just did an extra half mile and that wasn't so bad" and before you know it, you're up to 16, 17, 20, 22 miles on a long run.

a helpful tool for me that i've started to use is focusing less on the miles and more on the "time on my feet". my first marathon i finished in 4:09:14 but my longest run (22 miles) was around 3:50-4ish. when i DNF'd my 50K in Tennessee last summer - which was mostly because of being dehydrated and out of water on me and at the remaining aid stations - i was at mile 20 but the time was just under 5 hours which was a whole new world of time for me. essentially, what i'm babbling about is that focus on the time / hours more than a miles counter. i wish i would have done my long slow runs much longer and slower and had them at 5-6 hours so my body could get used to what it was like to be moving for that long.

which leads me to maybe my biggest achievement with long runs the last few months that most runners hate to admit - it's ok to walk! on my long runs i try to walk the first 2 minutes of every mile. it resets my legs and adds to the overall time on my feet. hopefully i don't have to walk at all during any of my marathons but if i have to, oh well. when i first started running i was so focused on constantly running and saw walking as a weakness or a sign that i wasn't a good runner and so when i ended up having to walk a few moments in my first marathon i felt like shit - until i saw that basically everybody walks at some point in time - whether at aid stations between drinks or whenever. so now, my long runs get a bit longer because i add walking to each mile.

another thing to remember is that running a marathon will always be painful and exhausting for everyone to some degree. being able to go beyond a half marathon doesn't make marathon runners immune to wanting to quit at times or having a shit time at mile 20 or whenever. from what i remember reading and seeing, most people hit the proverbial wall between miles 16-20 but even once beyond that hurdle it isn't a cake walk - even for people who have run 20+ marathons or ultra marathons. so don't think to yourself, "damn i'm exhausted or this feels like shit, how do i get that stop so i can run a marathon?" because that feeling will for the most part always be there lol

fueling and cross training can certainly help get over those hurdles as well. the energy bonk is real at about 2 hours depending how hard you're going.

and lastly / honestly, if you're not enjoying running longer distances then stick to what you enjoy doing. don't turn on running / start to hate running just to get to running a marathon distance. half marathon distances are a ridiculous achievement as well! think of the millions of people who never run a half marathon and you're running double digit miles! that's insane to most people. i've met some people who have run one marathon and 10+ half marathons and usually when someone finds out about this they ask, "why just the one marathon?" (usually asked by a non-runner who doesn't realize how insulting that sounds) and their answer made total sense: they tried it, they didn't find that much enjoyment in it, they're happy they did it and experienced it and then went back to what was still challenging but enjoyable - half marathon distances.

goddamn, this might be the longest post in chorus history

 

Love the thought that went into this, thank you so much!!! That’s a really good way of looking at it. Just time on feet. I like that a lot.

 

Good post above. Training is ultimately an imperfect experiment, where you are constantly tweaking the recipe. What works for some may or may not work for yourself, but you have to experiment to find out.

You ultimately need a good distance base before anything. When in doubt, mileage is king for any training program. The other aspects like cross training, core, strength, speed work, etc matter more when you have the base and are trying to build out on your base. I think keeping it simple is the way to go on a first marathon.

I think there is a mental barrier with marathons that is different compared to some other distances. Once you know you can complete the distance a big weight is lifted and the training can really open up from there. That’s a big reason why you tend to see big time improvements after the first one. Also the training improvements.

 

No amount of training really prepared me for miles 19-24 of my first marathon, despite having training runs of 18 and 20 under my belt.

I second walking. A quarter-mile walk to drink water, lower your heart rate, readjust clothes, get sweat out of your eyes, eat a quick snack really can help clear our any rising anxiety about the run you're on. I finished my marathon by walking .2 and running .8 of miles 18-23, walking .5 and running .5 of miles 24 and 25. But then it was basically a sprint to the finish line feeling like I'd not been running for four and a half hours at that point.

 

I think I’ll forever be surprised that marathon training plans don’t have you run the full distance beforehand. I get asked that a lot when people find out the longest run in training is 20-23 miles, not 26.

when I was training for my first marathon I of course went past the half marathon distance so when I officially ran a half marathon I was totally content and confident because I knew I could do it because I had. But I had only run 20 or 21 miles before my marathon so I had no idea if I actually could get to 26 or what that felt like so it always seems like it would be helpful to get to that distance in training (and I know in half marathon training plans only go to 10-11 miles).

I have my longest run this Saturday and it’s supposed to be 21 but I think I’m going to extend it to 23 since it’s been so long since my marathon.

 

I think a lot of those plans (especially for more newer runners) are meant to calm them on the front end that they don’t have to run 26 or 30 miles at a time. But then you train and get to race day and still have that unknown. But with 26 miles that is a lot on the body and for most people they have to work up to that distance so it doesn’t make sense to have them train running that far bc their body will be too broken down to finish training for race day. 20-23 seems to be where you still get the aerobic and endurance benefit without compromising the body too much.

I don’t think there are many hard rules to training. Generally speaking, the more 20 and 20+ mile runs you can do before your taper is what you should do. For most people that haven’t gone that distance they have to build up to it and can only reasonably do 2-3. I think on average, 4 is the ideal sweet spot when talking 18-week training cycles.

 

A lot of this hinges on goals too. It’s hard bc most people say they just want to finish, which I understand, but most people can do a marathon if they really want to. It may not be fast or pretty, but you will finish barring an injury.

The real question is how do you want that race to look? Usually that means some sort of target time. That target time informs a lot of the training that should be done. It’s easy for people to get overwhelmed bc they see all of these extra components compared to just running and it can be a lot. At the end of the day it is just running and should always be that simple. When in doubt just pound mileage and see where the chips fall. The extra stuff can come later. Even the mental aspect, which I contend is just as important as the physical training.

 

I thought the 22 mile cut off was a recovery thing. Any run further than that requires too much recovery time to be helpful in training for a marathon, so you use the taper to hit the 26.2 with as much energy as possible. I know it took a weeks for my energy to come back post race, but I was active days later with no discernible difference on 18 and 20.

 

The guy I run with a lot paces a bunch of marathons, so he’s like constantly just maintaining a base to go run a 3:00 or 3:10 marathon. He sometimes just goes out and does 26.2 for the hell of it.

 

Yep that’s how my dad was growing up. He did a spring and fall marathon ever year. He had periods of recovery, but was generally always able to just go out and run 26-30 miles if he felt like it. Makes ramping up for serious training easier. I do think there is a toll over time that I think my dad’s body took living in that world for so long, but that model makes sense assuming you can balance it better.

 

Completed the third longest run (in terms of time) I’ve ever done today. Now time for the fun part of training - tapering! Going to really focus on protein the next two weeks and then the always fantastic carb loading week leading up to the race.

 

Long runs are important but still just one aspect of quality training. They won't accomplish much if your overall training is poor or if it suffers due to long recovery periods after long runs. Cumulative fatigue is normally the safer, more progressive way to train.

Competitive runners can definitely dabble in supercompensation (double workout days or special blocks, overdistance long runs, back-to-back long runs, etc.). But weekly volume is an important prerequisite for this type of training.

All in all, the marathon is a brutal and unnatural distance, and too many runners tackle it before they are ready. Getting to the starting line healthy and a little bit undertrained is preferable to being overcooked and injured on race day.

 

Supposed to be 65 in Des Moines tomorrow. Following Saturday? High of 26 lol

will be very curious what the following Saturday will be since that’s race weekend… March in the Midwest is always a gamble.

 

I run an 8k two weeks from now and I am basically in the same boat. Was 70 here yesterday, will be 28 next Saturday.

Good weather did allow me to get out and do 5.5 miles yday as a new personal distance best. Tied my right shoe too tight though and it absolutely kills today on the top lol

 

i learned this morning that there was a tornado or two "around" Des Moines yesterday. not sure how common tornados in Iowa in March are but that seems... early i the year for that to happen? but who knows with global warming anymore. so that's a little freaky to hear but eventually i gotta do the midwest states and that's a just a gamble that has to e taken much like anywhere else since no place is perfect. but am very curious what the weather allegedly will be lol.

congrats on the new long distance! that's gotta be a bit a relief knowing you've already passed the distance you'll be running at your 8k!

ahhh, yes, i've been there with tying shoes too tight. and it's always the right shoe for me when it happens so i know that pain well lol. i feel like i almost ALWAYS pull the laces too tight and then remember not to do that so i don't tie them that tight but sometimes when crunched for time i forget that until i'm running and realize what i've done.

 

Was in the office today so I had to run over lunch and it was only 3 miles but OF COURSE I forgot to put on my nipple bandaids so that’s uh not feeling super great right now lol

fuck working from an office and making me rush!!!!!!! Work from home or gtfo

 

Can't believe it was that long ago!

 

“only” three miles he says

 

Ten days from my half and I'm going to be nowhere near my time goal, but I do feel much better when I'm running these days than I did a few months ago. I think I'm burnt out on it, though. Gonna take April and May off, minimum.