Pinegrove - Skylight (September 28, 2018) Album • Page 55

I have written and deleted like 50 posts because I can't figure out how to say what I want, so I'm going to bed. I just want to say I really love how respectful this conversation has been and I appreciate how level headed we've all been for the most part. I think this is an important conversation worth having, I look forward to reading more at work tomorrow

 

I don't really see how my long post could imply that meaning

 

im just asking because it seems like you're taking one side more seriously than the other for that reason when plenty of us do fight for accountability and have been for years and years. like that only matters for the other side? i agree with the rest of your post but that stuck out to me

 

I mean the "other side" (if we're gonna go with that terminology) hasn't really provided any sort of evidence that other abuse or allegations didn't occur.

My point is, as I said before, there are members of this site who have said pretty explicitly that there are other cases of abuse aside from the main one focused on in the article. I don't know if they're referring to the one addressed by Kayla and the article or something else, but there have been a lot of vague posts about "knowing more information" both in this thread and the Accountability thread. The point of bringing up those voices fighting for accountability is to say that I have trust in those posts, as vague as they are. Not to call out people who have come to a different conclusion.

 

i didnt mean to make it an us vs them thing but hard not to when told we'll be reckoned with or whatever


the whole thing of people knowing more information but not being able to say anything has been a trend since the beginning of this that's done nothing but muddle everything up for everyone tbh and i guess i understand trusting them based on that, that makes more sense to me, but without anything more how much can you really trust anyone though? especially online?

 

I get that, and that was my initial gut reaction as well. But the more I think about it and the more I think about the harm done for everyone ignoring those vague posts and welcoming Evan back into the scene with open arms vs. just being hesitant to immediately back to business as usual, the more I side with believing the vague posts and being hesitant.

Again, unless this is a weird misunderstanding and they were referring to something that has already been addressed.

 

Like, is there a chance that a bunch of those Tweets are just people who didn't like Pinegrove already half reading the article and blurting out their half formed opinions? Absolutely. But the Adult Mom tweet and the Tweets from other people who appear to be part of the scene and 100% have more interaction with Evan and Pinegrove than I do cause me to, at the very least, lend them some credibility. To write them off as uninformed or bitter or w/e (not putting words in anyone's mouth, that's honestly how I felt about them before sitting and thinking), is pretty toxic and part of the reason shit like this goes unaddressed.

 

i think saying we're welcoming evan back with open arms, at least a lot of us in chorus (i have no doubt thats how it is elsewhere online), is kind of misrepresenting real feelings being had here. how many people have said pinegrove's music will never be the same to them? a lot. a lot of people are still confused and think evan fucked up and arent sure how to feel about him. but we're trying to understand what to do and if the victim we know of seems to be okay with the resolution, well fans want to feel that resolution as well.

 

Well, it feels a little irresponsible to keep bringing up how there are other allegations when you don't actually know if it's true or not and your information is based on extremely vague posts. You can be hesitant, but you are going to need to be clearer about where all of these other allegations are coming from.

 

Absolutely, there have been a spectrum of opinions and very few are entirely positive. It's all very confusing

 

I'm sorry, it was a hot take, it was the first thing I picked up on reading the article. I was frustrated that article spent more time portraying Evan in a dreamy light than it did apologizing or clearing up a situation that has confused many of us over the last year. But I wasn't trying to call out the author or distract from the message. Sorry for the bad taste.

 

I quoted one earlier in this thread. @leerkat made a comment earlier today that implied more people were involved. I believe @US Camera and (shitty banned user) @cwhit said similar things back in March when the news came out about Half Waif and Pinegrove recording new music in either this thread or the Accountability thread.

EDIT:
And I don't really see how being hesitant and bringing up explicit posts about there being more to the story than what is public can be considered "irresponsible" but w/e

 

I’m just going to say that as one of the loudest “I don’t think I can support Evan” voices in here, I don’t know of any other instances of abuse by Evan. My personal stance is just that, given what I know about this situation and some comments I saw outside the article, I don’t know that the matter is as settled as the article makes it out to be. As the Long Neck twitter thread pointed out, a cynical view of some of Evan’s comments can really be read as “I’m sorry she feels that way,” not owning up to what he did specifically.

I’m trying to be very clear that this is my personal opinion though. I don’t think any less of anyone who comes to a different conclusion than me, as I think it’s an incredibly fair conclusion to come to.

This situation should have never been brought to public attention in the first place. We’re having this conversation because we can’t put the genie back in the bottle. And I think this is the first time this scene is presented with a real view of an accountability process potentially having worked. I think the main dispute is whether we feel the article presented enough evidence to say whether it did or not. For right now, I’m not sure and I plan to stay away

 

Here are the posts that I keep going back to from March. I don't mean to put the original posters on blast or anything, they just came with very strong statements that stick in the back of my head.

 

Sofia and I were both referring to the anonymous individual. I won’t speak for her, but I don’t know of any other situations

 

Gotcha. Again, I don't mean to make any of this uncomfortable for you or anyone else with a relationship to the anonymous person. They were just the comments that I always came back to when people would speak about the process of Evan and the victim dealing with the situation privately. Idk if it has evolved beyond the way it was presented in March or not

 

it's called "waiting to see if and when the victim I know of will want to say something" but also I'm being vocal about this because I know they want people who know to be and they've spoken out before and nobody really listened.

Everyone just jumped to the conclusion that, despite this article clearly being an ultra suspect press release and not a honest piece about accountability, we could go forwards and act as if evan's now absolved, and have some high brow discussions about how GOOD it is that he got accountable or whatever. Without considering that the narrative is coming from one side only.

Without considering the fact that the friends and people closest to the original victim are kicking up about this. Without taking into account that the part about the victim not wanting for this to go out into the open and influence evan's career dates back to months ago, when it all first came out, like, this is recycled information. No, we all move on and take this dodgy ass spin article for granted and absolute fact because a good writer wrote it, even though it clearly has a commercial agenda and was written by people close to the abuser!

This is NOT a welcoming ground for any other person who has and may have been victimised by evan to come out with their experience. It has never been, the way everybody is talking about this man makes this clear, I don't know if you all realise, with this faux reverence. If I can make this person or any other person beyond that feel like someone has their back, then yes, I will be vocal even though I don't want to speak for this person. And I know this helps this person in particular so I will keep doing it.

EDIT : clarified some syntax in the first paragraph

 

These all sound like a singular person. The reporting hasn't revealed any other allegations except the other one that was not ever an allegation. To insinuate that there are multiple allegations based on these posts is a huge leap.

It can also be the case that wizard of loneliness knew that the band coming back in March would have been going against the victim's wishes, but the article says in no uncertain terms that she is comfortable with them coming back now, so...?

Yes, I do think it is somewhat irresponsible to flippantly suggest there are more allegations when that doesn't at all seem to be the case.

 

I threw my initial thoughts on a Twitter thread.

 

Honestly, I can’t say I know. Haven’t spoken to them in a few months but there is some public information that makes me feel as though not much has changed

 

This is basically the point I'm trying to get across in terms of my hesitation. To take the article at face value and believe that the accountability process has "worked" and Evan has made all amends and should be allowed the article to be as praising as it is creates a very weird space for people who, at least hinted at by people in this thread, have also been abused by him to come forward.

You can't really blame anyone for not knowing about an allegation that has not been made public, but if there are so many red flags by posters on this site and members of the scene who are basically saying things without saying them, it should be enough to take a step back and reflect.

 

Read @leerkat 's posts

 

No, I realise I was too agressive to people who may not have the same information as me, you're right. I complain about this happening and then I turn around and do it myself. It's not right. But I feel like the red flags within the article, raised by people from the scene who have had contact with evan, and the ones we have raised before should at least get people ticking.

 

It should, yes, and as the information from the article has settled in with me throughout the evening, the part that bothers me the most is that the album comes out basically 24 hrs from now. That just feels way too soon to me if the band is serious about not wanting fans who don't care about this stuff. Doesn't really give one a lot of time to reflect on the situation and make a choice.

 

And I don't mean to call you out but all of your posts on this site have been in this thread, and all of them (even before this article and a ton of information about the situation came out) have been hyper defensive of Evan. What's your angle?