Peter James of Manic Kat Records

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Recently I was able to schedule a Zoom call with Peter James, the owner of indie label Manic Kat Records, to discuss his label’s upcoming 10th anniversary. I also asked Peter about what qualities he looks for when signing bands/artists to his label, the best practices he’s learned in the music business, as well as how he sees the state of vinyl production today. Manic Kat Records has a roster that includes Ryan Cabrera, The Anchor, Along Came A Spider, and Todd Morse.

First of all, thank you for your time today, Peter. Manic Kat Records celebrates its 10th anniversary of existence this month, a remarkable achievement. What have been some of the most rewarding experiences that you’ve seen over the past decade of working with so many talented bands and artists?

Well, thank you again for having me. I really appreciate it, Adam. So the last 10 years have been crazy seeing some bands that developmentally, have come up and just been grinding through the scene. And just have been starting to kind of come into their own, and starting to tour more, and starting to really kind of show more in their scenes and kind of becoming more of a regional and national act. So it’s really cool. One <band> specifically being The Anchor. I mean, they went from a very small band and just grew exponentially over the years, to the point where now they’re doing quite big shows. Whenever they go on tour it’s a huge event. So it’s wild to see where everybody’s kind of been and where everyone’s kind of headed.

That’s cool, in your opinion, what are some of the primary goals of running/operating an indie record label?

I want to do things differently. I didn’t want to perpetuate a problem. I mean, I’ve been in the scene even way before the label. So a little background on me. I’ve been in indie bands. I’ve been signed to Indie labels. I’ve gone the major label route. I’ve kind of gotten burned on both aspects. And when this label kind of came around, I wanted to do things in a way where I’m not perpetuating stuff kind of happening the same way over and over again. Just didn’t want to be another label, right? So with us, we do things quite differently in terms of what we bring to the table in our business model. And it really kind of helped the artist and the ones that get it really get it, and the ones that don’t, I understand it is what it is. It’s a tough new model to kind of digest. And if that’s what you’re into, and you’re kind of ingrained in dealing with that old model, but we definitely feel that we have something, especially now, with a lot of bigger acts, kind of seeing where we’re at and what we bring to the table. It’s wild to see them kind of come on board and be like, “Okay, this is different. We like this. This is something unique, and we can get behind it.” So it’s pretty cool to see all that.

That’s awesome. So that kind of leads me to my next question, which is what lessons have you learned over the years about the best ways to support the bands on your label?

Well, I mean, I think realistically it’s individualized, right? Every artist, every band, comes with their own challenges and comes with their own unique situation. So really, it’s kind of tailoring that and figuring out exactly what they need, and tailoring our approach specifically to their needs, as opposed to trying to cookie cutter it, and be like, “Okay, well, this is what we do, and this is what we did, and it was successful for XYZ artists. So we’re just going to rinse and repeat.” Well, that’s not necessarily the case, because you’ve got to remember that every artist comes with very different challenges, but also they’re trying to attain different goals, in a different way. So tailoring everybody’s approach organically, I think, makes the most sense because everybody’s trying to get to the same spot, but they all want to go in a different direction to get there.

Can you think of a situation where you had to give extra support to an artist, whether they’re on tour, things like that, or other other ways that you helped fulfill the band’s needs of a record label?

I mean, I don’t want to dive in too deep to everybody’s backstory or whatever, but with The Anchor, it was more of just being there to facilitate and take stuff off of their plate. Because when they were building and growing and doing their thing, they just needed the extra helping hand to really just kind of push them to that next level, as opposed to smaller acts that we started working with that are just happy to be here. Noise Brigade were still kind of on their upswing, and still kind of learning the ropes, and still kind of learning how things work. So kind of trying to explain to them how the industry works as a whole, and then more so how we don’t do things that way, or this is how the rest of the industry is doing, but this is what we’re doing to get you to where it needs to be. I mean, I try to teach them and help them and educate them in the business of the music business.

Yeah, and it’s great that you’re doing that too for your bands/artists to help them get a kind of a worldly view of the music industry, which is always changing…

I mean, things are kind of evolving, but you know, it’s not what it was like in the early 2000s, so it’s constantly being ahead of trends.

The music industry took a major hit during COVID in 2020, as I’m sure you’re well aware. How were you able to navigate through some of those unforeseen challenges?

I mean, we pivoted. We started our own mobile platform, mobile app. The good thing is with us being a smaller entity, we can pivot a lot easier and a lot quicker than a bigger label can because there’s just so many gears and so many things moving. It’s hard to kind of slow the big machine down. But we were able to kind of reevaluate, reassess, and kind of still stay relevant. We did that social media game…everyone was doing those “couch shows,” and everyone’s trying to stay relevant, everyone’s staying top of mind. That’s when we kind of developed the mobile app, which got some traction at the time. It helped the artists out a little bit. It kept them motivated, too. Because with bands, you get very demotivated when you’re in lockdown. You can’t tour, you can’t do anything…it’s highly demotivating. And some bands didn’t make it past COVID, unfortunately. They just lost the wind out of their sails, and they just started kind of tabling everything. A lot of bands broke up during COVID, but we tried to kind of stay relevant, and try to keep everybody active and busy with something to look forward to. I mean, we started doing contests and stuff, and all sorts of stuff to kind of keep the bands interactive, engaged, and keep them competing with each other, on a friendly level. I remember one year, one time during COVID, we did a “who could virtually eat the most pizza” kind of contest, because, we’re in the height of lockdown, right? No one could see anyone. And it was crazy and super depressive. We tried to run a contest, like tier-structure, where we had their fans come out and vote. So we kept the engagement going and kept the fanbase kind of psyched, and kept the bands psyched, and it created a little bit of healthy fun, banter and competition. Talking shit and everything like that. So it was fun. We can try to keep things as light-hearted as we possibly could, even though everything was very unstable.

Yeah, that’s a cool way of keeping people engaged, as far as the audience, the bands, and everything like that. So what about vinyl production? I mean, obviously that took a major delay in production around COVID, too. What have you noticed in the vinyl industry about production time and stuff like that?

Well, that’s definitely come back <to normal>. I mean, we have a great relationship with our partner that does all that pressing stuff. And I think now we’re at a normal lead time where it used to be, pre-pandemic. It’s just now a sheer volume. Because the vinyl spark has become huge. And I think that kind of happened right at the tail end of 2018/2019 where we really started seeing a lot more of that interest kind of sparking, and then it just kind of came full steam during the pandemic, and then obviously production delays and all that sort of stuff happening. And the workforce is grinded to almost a halt. So, I think now we’re at a point where I think turnaround time is basically where we were pre-pandemic, but I think the interest is still really high. So I think it’s going to be a cyclical thing where this is like the new shiny tool right now, and it might be something else in a few years, to be honest.

What qualities do you look for in a band or artist before you even consider signing them to your label?

I mean, there are a lot of great bands out there, and doing their thing and really hustling and doing what they need to be doing. For me, it’s about personality. Obviously it has to be great music, and it has to be something that we feel that makes sense for our roster. Because again, we do things a bit differently where we have success with one act, we’re not going to sign 10 or 15 acts that are exactly the same. And to my point earlier, rinse and repeat. We’re just not going to do that. So we want to make sure everyone has a unique presence on our roster, and we bring something different with every signing, so everyone kind of stands out. We want there to be a lot of uniqueness to the roster and be like, “Okay, well, this band has its own vibe, its own sound, its own kind of character, and it sounds very different from all the other bands.” So obviously the music is first, but then are they good people? Bottom line, if I can’t have a drink with you and hang out with you, then how am I going to work with you? How am I going to work in a long term relationship, where everyone’s got to get along and work together? And everything is always really good, and everybody’s happy when things are always going to plan. It’s everybody’s personality when things go sideways. And then, let’s face it, you’ve been in this business a long time, too. Nothing ever goes to plan. So it’s all about how you navigate that, and how you work together with the artists when things do go sideways, and how you pivot and make it work. We are not fans of keeping anything from the bands. I mean, we are very transparent, because we work very collaboratively, so that things will never really go sideways. So for me, it’s really making sure the bands have a whole understanding. This is a music business. You can’t control everything. There’s no way. And there’s a label or anybody or manager, or anybody in the business says otherwise, they’re full of it, because there’s so many variables that are just beyond everybody’s control.

And I think with your point of view, looking at a broad spectrum of artists is a great way of looking at it, because a lot of labels will say, well, this doesn’t fit the mold of XYZ label. So pigeonholing, in my opinion, kind of limits the overall production from a label’s perspective.

Right, in that case, I wouldn’t have worked with Ryan <Cabrera>, right? Because technically, on paper, when you look at it, he doesn’t fit our roster. But you know what, if you actually peel the layers back, of that onion, he’s an old pop-punk kid at heart. So it fits very well. If you listen to any of his interviews that he’s done with us, it does make sense. And you listen to it more and more, and you’re like all right, I get it. As opposed to at face value. You’re like, what the hell was that? Peel back that onion a little bit. You’ll see very much how relevant and how much this actually does make sense.

Yeah, it kind of goes to that personality thing that you mentioned…you guys achieved some chart success with bands like Right On, Kid, The Anchor, and also Ryan Cabrera, like we just talked about. What key metrics do you use to measure success for each of your acts on your roster?

I mean, there’s so many different ones to be honest with you. Realistically, it’s a matter of just how well they’re doing, how well they’re charting in terms of whether it’s Spotify or Apple Music. And again, this comes back to kind of knowing each individual artist. You can’t really measure “success” by a cookie cutter method. So, older bands, or more legacy bands, are going to chart differently than a band that’s in their early 20s, where their fanbase is also late teens/early 20s, and is constantly on Spotify. So that’s where you gauge that an older act…let’s just take Along Came A Spider, for example, or Ryan. They’ve been in the game a really long time. Apple Music might be a more solid depiction of where they sit. So every different artist has its own “metrics of success.” Because you can’t pigeonhole everybody to just one hole. It just doesn’t work.

Do you set any core expectations with bands before you sign them?

I mean, it’s always about growth at the end of the day. I mean, what are we doing here? If we’re not here to help you grow, then why are we working together? Why is there a partnership? Why are we involved? So it’s constant, steady growth. I’m not looking for hits. I’m not trying to perpetuate the problem. I’m not scouring TikTok for the next viral trend…not doing it. I don’t care. There’s many, many, many other entities out there, other labels, that are doing that sort of thing. Great, let them do it. That’s fine. I don’t do things that way. I would rather build and work granularly, side by side with the artist, and help them grow. Even if it’s a slow and steady growth, I’m okay with it, as long as its growth, as long as the metrics show that they’re going in an upward trend, I’m a happy guy, and the band is happy too. In this type of genre, and what we cover, we’re not for intensive purposes, we’re not signing the next Taylor Swift. That’s not happening. So with us, it’s very much a slow burn and little inches of growth, as opposed to trying to do that big mile, big pop. If it happens, great, I’ll take it, but it’s not something that we strive for, swinging from the fences every single shot.

And that’s an authentic way of running a record label from your vision, too.

I appreciate that. I’ve always been, because I’ve been in bands my entire life, and I still am in a band…I look at it very much like with little baby steps, little wins. You’re not going to have that Grand Slam, but if it happens, fantastic. But you can’t be swinging for the fences.

Yeah, it gets expensive that way, doesn’t it? <Laughter>

It doesn’t make sense, and it doesn’t make sense for every act. The industry has changed so much, even in the last five years. The way people digest music and look for new artists and everything…that’s all changed. I mean, just the overall methodology has changed. I mean, you can’t do the same things that worked in the 80s and 90s, hell, even the early 2000s, you can’t do those particular methodologies now, because it just doesn’t translate. The years of just plowing hundreds of thousands of dollars into radio and cramming it down everybody’s throat, making sure it’s in the top 20, it just doesn’t make sense anymore. But you know when you walk into any radio station, they still think it’s 1985, so they’re a little different…

So the last question I have for you is, what is your vision for the label as you move forward in the next decade?

So we have a lot. It all comes out of growth, really. At the end of the day, it’s all about surprising people. We have a big announcement already scheduled for the end of September. Again, just happy accidents, things just lined up. We have a pretty big signing teed up for that signing announcement that’s going to be happening towards the end of September. I’m really excited for that, and I think that’s going to really lay the foundation for where we’re headed going into the next decade. I mean, we’re talking to bands right now and managers right now that I’ll tell you five years ago and 10 years ago, I never thought I’d have conversations with so it’s pretty cool to see it. I thought, even when we were talking with Todd <Morse> then Ryan…They’ve been there, done that. They understand what the industry bears right now, and what it’s been bearing, and they see the value in what we do. So it’s such a cool thing to have that buy in from your own team. Everyone’s kind of drinking the Kool Aid, right? But to see the artist really supporting the methodology and the way we do business is really cool. So for me, it definitely validates what we’ve been doing the last 10 years and striving for and trying to establish ourselves. The next 10 years are just more of the same, to be honest. I know everybody wants that cliche of, “oh, you ain’t seen nothing yet!”It’s again, going back to steady growth and really just kind of building upon what we have, and just kind of taking care of the artist, because they take care of us. It’s a very much a reciprocal situation where we’re very close to every single band we sign. I don’t think a lot of labels and a lot of owners can see that in every every aspect, but I am super close with every single band and artists that we work with, and I’m proud of that. With that relationship comes a lot of trust. So for me, trust is a two-way street, so just kind of keeping that going and building on it, and growing everybody, and then hopefully growing the label in the process, that’s all I can really ask.

That’s great. And it sounds like a sustainable business model. I wish you guys nothing but the best. I’ve been really appreciating the music that you’ve been putting out so far, too!

Thank you for all your support, too, for all these years and everything. We really appreciate your support of our artists, the releases, and everything.

It was great meeting you.

Take care, Adam!

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