Men's Soccer (Football) Thread [Archived] Soccer • Page 299

My thoughts exactly. #PaulieOut #RueIn

 

Messi and Argentina lose the Copa and Ronaldo and Portugal win the Euro in the same summer. Let the flood gates open if that happens.

 

I feel sorry for the tax man if that happens.

 

I think it's funny how many people seem to be assuming Messi handled all his own taxes. Not in here necessarily, but on Twitter. Like he wouldn't have an accountant.

But, I'm in the minority here, but 47% taxation should be a crime. No wonder so many famous people over there try to establish tax havens and corporations and whatnot.

 

Of course he has an accountant, but you're responsible for your own taxes. If the accountant is suggesting he stes up an offshore account to hide his earnings from his image rights, Messi is still culpable. His accountant won't have power of atorney, Messi is on the hook for anything undertaken in his name, and rightly so.

 

Just because 47% tax is insane, it doesn't mean you can just decide to not pay. Court found him guilty, so he's guilty. If you're a grown ass man, you're still responsible for your taxes and things you sign under your name. He should be suing his accountant if he suspects wrongdoing, which wasn't suggested by Messi or his lawyer.

Also, I fail to feel the least bit guilty that he has to pay 47% tax when he makes over 80 million euros a year. That's insane and it's just downright greedy.

 

I'm not up to knowledge on spanish tax, but I'd be 99.9% confident that the 47% tax rate would be a progressive tax. So you're not paying 47% on all your earnings, just on your earnings above X.

Back in the 60s, we had a 95% rax rate in the UK for the highest earners.

 

That's how it works in the States as well. Not sure about Spain but now I'm curious.

 

I also don't think there is ever a justification to withold tax from a country you live in. Messi had a fantastically privileged life, living in a country with some serious economic problems. He shouldbe ashamed of himself for avoiding paying the 4 million euros ( and I'd be shocked if that was all he's avoided ), that could go towards hospitals, roads, infrastructure etc.

I have nothing but contempt for anybody knowingly avoiding their tax obligations.

 

Yeah, whatever the exact circumstances of this are, in general it'd be hard for me to sympathise with someone over their taxes when they probably still have a fortune in the bank afterwards.

 

messi makes 80 million a year kicking a ball for a living, but the thing you find ludicrous is a 47% tax rate?

"i live in a country where the top .1% own 90% of the wealth, but the real crime here would be having them pay an effective tax rate over 30%"

 

Absolutely. But to expect someone who is more athlete than anything else to understand potential implications -- which a greedy accountant could easily hide, as this same accountant is at fault for Mascherano's exact same tax issues -- is akin to asking me to understand the rules of engagement. I don't have the education or the training.

I agree. And when the amount was determined a few years back, he immediately paid them with interest. So it's not like the money never made it into the Spanish system.

Call me a crazy Capitalist, but I think people should be able to hold on to a majority (and yes, I'm aware 53% is a majority, but it's close enough to be half and fuck that) of what they make.

I'm legit surprised anyone stayed around to pay that. Absolute gouging.

He has paid all the taxes with interest a few years back, if that's any consolation with you. Legit inclined to think he was simply unaware because he just trusted his accountant. Again, athlete first and foremost.

Of course I find what athletes make absolutely ridiculous. But the market supports it, so whatever. There's one other person on the planet who can do what Messi does, and he makes nearly the same, if not more. That's not the discussion at hand so put your straw man away.

 

The discussion I was having was about your perspective.

There is nobody else on the planet who can do what Messi does. But what Messi does is kick a soccer ball. It is a skill with little practical value beyond its capacity for entertainment. And yet despite that, he makes more than 80 million a year doing so. Instead of applauding and envying him for tax avoidance, maybe view the issue as a reflection of greed, as poor recognition of the fact that his wealth is entirely random and fortuitous; that he could've just as easily been born into a world that didn't value his ability to kick a ball.

And despite that, the crime you see is not in a monopolization of wealth at the top which has been achieved through the lowering of tax rates over the last handful of decades, the crime you see is that a tax rate could still sit at 47%.

 

Brilliantly put.

If Messi has a problem with 47% tax, then he should leave the country. Spain had/has severe money issues, and some of it's richest citizens not paying their fucking tax surely doesn't help. Maybe 47% IS too high, but that's not for him to decide, it's the law, and if I don't pay my tax, I'd surely be going to prison for it.

 

FWIW, the highest income tax rate in Spain (which is 42%), is maybe even on the small side for Europe.

Countries with a higher or very similar income tax rate;
Austria (50%)
Belgium (50%)
Denmark (55.6%)
Finland (56.5%)
France (49%)
Germany (45%)
Italy (45%)
Lithuania (42%)
Croatia (40%)
Greece (53%)
Iceland (46.24%)
Ireland (52%)
Luxembourg (40%)
Netherlands (52%)
Noway (46.9%)
Portugal (46.5%)
Romania (45%)
Serbia (52%)
Slovenia (50%)
Sweden (56.6%)
UK (47%)

 

Something i wondered is if footballers wages fall into the PAYE system, and whether they use that or a similar system in Spain?

 

damn ireland not even top of the taxes

 

I think I remember hearing that in the UK, footballers have to be paid using the PAYE system. I'm sure they have their nasty little ways around that to hide and move a bit of money around, but as far as I'm aware they're required to be paid their wages in a normal PAYE manner, just like everybody else.

 

Yeah footballers are paid their base wage through PAYE, but for their image rights and bonuses they set up their own companies and are paid through that. Not 100% sure but I think that's how the tax avoidance is done.

 

Pretty sure most of the football tax avoidance stuff has been over image rights and offshore companies. The basic (a laughable term really) pay they receive probably arrives with them in much the same way the rest of us get paid via the PAYE system. I'd presume most of Europe operates on a similar basis, but that's a total guess.

The Messi situation is sort of doubly interesting when you find that the Spanish government bailed some teams out a few years ago. I'm pretty sure I saw something about an investigation into Spanish football because there's a suggestion of teams essentially getting state aid.

 

that's why image rights always take the longest and are always the hold up when signing a player.

 

Apparently we are talking to Lacazette, but still negotiating price. Of-fucking-course we are...

 

Tevez wants 250k/week to return to West Ham. Lol