Kanye West - ye & Kids See Ghosts (June 1 & 8 2018) Album • Page 24

I’ll listen. I can’t wait for the records. If you chose not to that’s fine too. But I have my reasons, and I view this situation far different than everyone in this thread.

 

*BOOM*

 

hey as long as no ones trying to convince people who dont want to listen that they should listen we're all good here. do your thing.

i cant wait for the pusha record and im more excited for the cudi joint album because the cudi hooks will be hot

 

Where I have the hardest time is when I see something with someone that's pretty awful and it turns out to be really good. The example off the top of my head is A Ghost Story, which was one of the better movies I saw last year (and in a few years), but has Casey Affleck in it. I don't want to recommend something like that, but also ... the movie impacted me more than just about any other piece of art has in a long time. I loved the movie. That's where I usually have the hardest time, realizing I like/love/want to recommend something that includes an awful person. (Related: I don't wanna go back and re-watch Baby Driver, even though I loved that movie as well.)

 

What is the far different version?

 

Your "A Ghost Story" example pretty much sums up how I feel about it. Like, I love Tom Cruise as an actor and see nearly everything he does, but he's clearly a Scientology cuckoo and I really don't like the idea of supporting him and his movies, but I do it anyway, ya know?

 

Man, this thread is HARD to keep up with.

 

i really love pantera's 90's stretch of albums and when people ask for older metal recs i either have to give an entire lecture about pantera's history of confederate imagery, phil's flirtation with white supremacist ideals, and other shit hes said, or not even rec them. but cowboys from hell through great southern trendkill is absolutely essential to understanding metal in the 90s. usually i dont even bother and dont rec them but man i still love those albums and i feel weird about it. its interesting when a band or artist has already cemented themselves in the history book as a huge influence but the members did or continue to do a whole bunch of problematic shit. like im tempted to give leeway when pantera has been broken up for a long time and will never get back together and there's ways to listen to them without giving any of them a cent. but a new band coming up still around with the same kind of views shouldn't be given the opportunity to get anywhere.

 

This, exactly. And if any of this translates into the lyrical content, I’m done.

For me, case by case is the way to go. I choose not to watch Woody Allen films anymore, and I can’t revisit my old favorites of his because of the autobiographical content that somehow makes his laughable denials even less believable. But on the other hand, I’m currently working my way through Polanski’s catalogue, and I find it far less challenging even though what he did was abhorrent. I think the difference is what the artist decides to create. Considering the offenses of the respective filmmakers, Polanski’s films are far less troubling and content-wise are a bit more removed from what he did, whereas Manhattan is literally about Woody Allen dating a fucking kid which was probably a weird detail then but now both weird and absolutely loathsome.

 

I understand what he is saying when everyone of talks about (in this case RTs) something maybe they like about someone who is demonized they automatically become demonized. It’s all very binary to me. It seems as though we fall back to lazy good/evil generalizations. I can buy that Kanye likes some things that this Candace Owens has said. Some of the things she says are in line with things he has said for years. He has repeatedly complained about being put in a box, held back etc. he fancies himself as a forward thinking genius. I also understand his posts can be viewed as reckless because of everything I stated prior. People are quick to connect dots however they see fit, which is an inherent problem with social media/text messaging.

Do I think my wife and entire extended family is evil because they voted for Trump? Absolutely not. Do I think Kanye is a bad person because he likes a point made by people that aren’t popular with people that frequent these forums? No. I think Kanye is a human, he’s cherry picking quotables without realizing how far that rabbit hole goes.

Also: I understand with great power comes responsibility. But I’m not going to kill Kanye over every damn RT because I have the time to sit and analyze and connect every dot.

 

I mean, this is basically me with Kanye the past couple of years, with the added reality that his early work was so important to me in terms of hip hop as an art form and his overall message. I feel guilty that I enjoy his music and even more guilty that I let the stuff from the last album cycle slide to the back of my mind so that I could eventually enjoy Pablo. He's been my favorite artist for over a decade and I've kept myself from drawing a line because of that, but maybe it's finally time, even if it's coming too late.

 

i dont know that seems kind of weak to me. kanye is a 40 year old man and candace's views and agenda are very clear in every single one of her videos. he knows what shes saying and why shes saying it. he likes trump. its not hard to see whats happening here. kanye's buddying up with the right. that is extremely bad, considering the kind of destruction the right wing agenda is currently attempting to and in some cases succeeding in bringing to our country. if kanye voted for trump hes not a bad person just for that. but combined with BILL COSBY INNOCENT, platforming candace and scott adams, taking meetings with trump, saying gross shit about amber rose and other women, voting for trump is just one of many pieces to the puzzle that make him a bad person.

 

kanye's not some 15 year old teen on the internet accidentally stumbling into the_donald. he's a grown ass man with one of the biggest platforms in the entire world. he knows what hes doing

 

You're omitting some stuff from Kanye's discernable worldview. Notably the Trump endorsement and propagating of another alt-right figurehead in Scott Adams, and the alt-right is not an ideology many can chalk up to "difference in opinion" or whatever, they are actively violent and harmful.

You're not wrong that stuff Candace Owens has said is ideologically consistent with Kanye. She refuses to acknowledge systemic racism as a factor in the lives of everyday Americans. Kanye has acknowledged systemic racism, but seems to agree with her that it isn't the point, or that fighting against it is misguided. That's dangerous thinking. You can feel however you want about Kanye and the ideology he's aligning himself with, listen to his music or don't on your terms, that's for you. But paint a complete picture of what's happening here.

 

i'd prob say just voting trump makes you a bad person

 

To me this seems like you're doing exactly what you posit others are doing ... connecting the dots to fit a narrative you'd like to believe is true. Occam's Razor here is probably far more likely given the relatively large amount of information we have and the history.

I'd argue there's definitely an 'evil' quality to the vote in the first place; however, if there's a continued support of that man, now in 2018, I think that's almost an inarguable act of evil. It's a cosign on very real acts of violence.

But this selectively ignores a variety of other issues to only focus on the most recent one. It is the most flattering version of what could be going on, but I think it means we have to believe Kanye's an idiot to say he's just cherry picking quotes from these people and not aware of who and what they are actually saying.

But at some point, would you not admit that the pieces and history become too large to ignore? I'm not saying "kill someone over a RT," I'm saying take into account the past, which also includes some very fucked up things, and present.

 

I know what it's like to be surrounded by conservatives. Hell, last week I walked into my dad's office where he was listening to Michael Savage. I don't hate my family for supporting Trump. For awhile I even empathized though I'm far beyond that now. That being said it'd be pretty stupid to equate my parents voting for Trump to one of the biggest voices in pop culture literally endorsing the alt-right.

I'm still gonna listen to Kanye, I don't think I'll even find it difficult to do so if I'm being honest. What I can say is that I definitely won't jump into Kanye-bashing conversations to defend him, even if that discussion is just about the music.

 

On the topic, did anyone see the Ebro video? Few things said that I found interesting.

1. Kanye was addicted to opiates during 2016 which I guess I’m not so shocked. Curious if he still is taking them though....

2. Ebro thinks Kanye is doing this just to sell albums and for the money, see Rosanne now being a massive show now?

3. Kanye said he likes Trump and pretty bad much said cus Trump sat down and gave him some time which Ebro, Rosenberg, and Laura said he got played so hard by Trump.

4. They think Kanye is still mad about the comments Obama made about him and this is another reason why he’s going against the grain.

5. Still mad no one has fix the issues in Chicago but I guess he isn’t seeing what his own friends (Chance and Common) are doing to try and help

 

Thinking that all this is about the comments Obama made about him is a massive massive stretch. Clearly this is what Kanye believes, plain and simple.

 

Agreed, just some stuff I forgot about and found interesting.

 

the only person whose thoughts i care less about than ebro is charlamagne

 

Honestly I also don't think he's doing this just to sell albums. I feel like that's almost giving him too much credit. He's saying all this shit because its what he thinks and he's always gonna talk about what he thinks. He was probably just not on social media at all because he was focused on music. Now that all his music ventures seem to be finished foe the year, he's ready to spew his bullshit on twitter.

 

Nobody is doing this.

 

consider: charlemagne isn’t even the most useless person on his own show

 

i do hate dj envy