Joker (Todd Phillips, October 4, 2019) Movie • Page 61

...what? It’s Bruce Wayne, and there’s Alfred, and it’s in Gotham, and his parents get killed in front of him. That’s not “using elements” of the Batman origin story, it literally is the origin story

 

The entire film relies on the viewer's knowledge of these things. It is supposed to be a bold re-imagining that Bruce Wayne's father turns out to be a scumbag.

 

this definitely isn't the Ledger or Leto Joker canonically it makes no sense

 

The most obvious interpretation is that Arthur is the inspiration for the guy who ends up being the Batman villain.

 

Have you never read an Elseworlds comic? Or, a good comic that genuinely deconstructs the superhero genre.

 

Not My Joker

Really though I was entertained which is pretty much why I wanted to see this, didn't go to it for politics or some deeper message, but also didn't expect to be interested or captured by those aspects of the film. idk for me it was just sort of a one off shot movie probably won't watch again but I had a good enough time having a date night and seeing it. Most annoying thing about it were the discussions about shootings and incels which still make no sense how that blew up to the point where someone might have done something just because that conversation was happening. Not that any fear around that isn't valid but as to why it stuck to this movie in particular I have no clue.

 

No, but I've seen this movie

 

Ok, well, I know this is the second time we've touched on this topic, but since I really enjoy superhero storytelling, I'm gonna try to better articulate my perspective.

There's a really long, really deep history of comic books playing around with superhero mythology. Sometimes to deconstruct & comment on the tropes; other times, there's no other point than to have some fun. A lot of Alan Moore stories do this, to varying degrees of affection & bitterness (Miracleman, Watchmen, 1963, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow, Supreme, Tom Strong). Which, he was largely following in the footsteps of Harvey Kurtzman's Superduperman, from Mad in the 50s. Other examples from across the spectrum include Gotham by Gaslight, Superman: Red Son, Spider-Gwen, Warren Ellis' Planetary, & Rick Veitch's Brat Pack.

Good superhero deconstruction really hasn't been pulled off in any film that I've seen thus far in this era of superhero saturation in Hollywood. We have some awful Snyder films that think they're doing it, like that trash Watchmen adaptation, & we have Deadpool, which has about as deft a hand as freaking Family Guy, lol. The best movie examples, tbh, are probably Into the Spider-Verse, which uses mainstream comics' multiverse idea as an effective storytelling tool, & The Incredibles, which is often called the best Fantastic Four movie but is actually arguably the best Watchmen movie.

Anyways, I know that Todd Philips made a big deal out of not paying attention to any comics when making Joker, but what he ended up making was actually in that deep superhero comic tradition. Unfortunately, it's a pretty bad movie that handles this about as well as it handles class struggle & mental health, lol. But, in a good version of this movie, what (for example) the Waynes dying should make one think is ABSOLUTELY NOT, "hey, that Bruce is about to become a Batman & fight this Joker or someone he inspired," lol. Instead, it should be seen as a play on that iconography, where translating it into a new context changes it from tragedy to something messier. As I've previously argued, this is one of the closest things this crap film has to doing something genuinely interesting, which is why the desire for this to be removed baffles me so much.

 

I didn't feel like it painted everyone with mental health issues as psychotic.

"Then it's anti-1% and seems to be anti-police, but then it paints those protesting the rich and fighting against police violence as bad too"

My interpretation was that the director was calling out everyone. We all have a part to play in the way things are

 

Wow it's wild that this came out like a month ago and it's already out of the cultural consciousness. Remember how big of a deal it was before it dropped?

 

Lol isn’t it about to cross a billion dollars? Hardly out of public consciousness

 

Yeah @OhTheWater apologize to Mr. Clownman

 

Aladdin crossed a billion as well. Will it be remembered?

The posts about this film being a turning point or the most important film of the year or a firebrand or whatever were so wildly offbase. If anything, the lingering effects will be trying to reboot good ideas under superhero IP

 

It'll enter conversations again when the Oscar noms roll around. I thought comic book movies were going to steer away from "gritty" after how badly the DCEU movies were received, but it looks like they're still marketable if done a certain way.

 

I think there’s a difference between Joker gritty and BVS gritty. Definitely room for light hearted romps like GOTG,epic showdowns like Avengers, and dark dramas like Joker. As much as I love MCU movies, Scorsese’s comments ring pretty true. I hope the next round of movies, now that they’re digging deep into the weirder, less popular aspects of Marvel, offers up something different.

 

Even though this ended up being bad, I still stand by this post from April:

 

Yes Aladdin will probably be in a lot of conversations when people talk about movies from this year, good or bad.

 

I'm all for studios taking big swings, even if they might miss.

 

Aladdin was great

 

People who care enough to rank their favorite films of the year saw Aladdin?

 

I'd rather watch an interesting trainwreck than another bland but fine movie

 

Yes.

 

Aladdin is not going to be in critical or cultural discussions at the end of the year.

 

Aladdin will only be in conversations when people complain about Disney's live action remakes and how it and Lion King are examples of them not even coming close to the original