Jimmy Eat World - Integrity Blues (October 21, 2016) Album • Page 91

HOLY FUCK

 

This is the best band in the history of recorded music. Fact.

 

He's actually a complete goofball from what I can tell, just not (normally) on stage

 

Understatement tbh

 

Anyone know when to expect shipping confirmations?

 

that may have even topped the futures 10 year tour. maybe. fuck they are so god damn good i swear. the new songs sounded so great live and after seeing them play it and knowing every word already its pretty much set in stone you with me is a top 5 jimmy song for me. if there's something even better on the new album im going to be blown the fuck away.

 

very much so

 

@mitny901

yeah i never got the hate for it, i listened to it today and theres alot of elements that later appeared in their next albums
and its great to hear them do that sort of fast old punk rock style of the early 90s

to me its a great page in their history

 

Night Drive is my favourite song from 'Futures', and one of my favourite songs, period. Love the slow build up in atmosphere.

 

It is a great page in their history. It's 90s pop punk executed very well. As well as it being very catchy and energetic, there are lots of creative elements that you wouldn't find on many other pop punk albums of its time, like ambient guitar, progressive structures with long instrumental passages, and some pretty acoustic guitar work.

And I don't know if there's that much "hate" for it; I think it's mostly apathy. Same goes for Static Prevails. I'm sure there are a lot of people who do dislike either album, but I'm sure there are also people who read about the lack of love for these albums and therefore don't make that much of an effort to get into them (where otherwise they might find they love them). If you consistently read that an album isn't good, then you're less likely to invest the time to find rewards in them because you are conditioned to think the rewards may not be there. That's just normal human behaviour because there are only so many hours in the day, so why risk your time on something that you think is not going to pay off?

I think that aggregate album ratings tend to be inflated, negatively or positively. There's a feed-forward effect, where as an album gathers more and more positive ratings, the next generation of people discovering it will try harder and harder to get into that album, and will look for the rewards in them because they know they're "supposed" to like the album. As an album gets more and more negative ratings, people are much less likely to check it out, and even if they do, it's much more likely to be "just one listen to confirm the negative rating". So the ratings of less critically-popular albums get dragged further down by the feed-forward mechanism, and the ratings of more critically-popular albums get hoisted up further. That's what I think happens naturally in all music communities, and is the source of the "hive mind" thing that I've made comment about in the past (and I know I got a lot of hate for saying that because of the negative connotations of the phrase, and I'm sorry that I can't articulate it better as I really don't mean to insult anyone here). I think there's a lot of unconscious bias when it comes to our judgement of art, and it's impossible to divorce ourselves from the context in which we experience the art. If you're in 1996 and hear Pinkerton among a pool of critics who say it sucks... you're more likely to think it sucks. If you're in 2016 and hear Pinkerton after having heard of its retrospective critical acclaim, you're more likely to think it's a classic. This is kind of proven I think and I'm sorry most people hate me for saying it, but I think it's a fairly true phenomenon. And I think it's partly what goes into Static Prevails having such a different reception in one forum compared with another.

It all depends on the environment and communities you put yourselves in. This is one community that leans more towards disregarding Static Prevails compared to other communities (which is fine, I've made my peace with it). However the 1994 album is disregarded in almost all communities, so it's much more difficult to find the voices of those people who really do enjoy it. I genuinely enjoy it, but I know I'm in the minority. Whether it's because of the feed-forward effect that I'm in the minority, or it's because of the fact that it just isn't a very likeable album, it's impossible for me to know. But I feel like if the band hadn't publicly disregarded this album themselves (by never repressing it and publicly saying they don't like the album anymore), then maybe fewer fans would disregard the album as a consequence.

Again, I know I'll get a lot of flack for this opinion, and I'm sorry about that, but I just like discussing these kinds of phenomena when it comes to music critique because, well, I dunno, I find it interesting. I'm not intending to point the pitchforks at anyone.

 

Chase This Light is my shit mate.

 

You make it sound like there's some kind of conspiracy against their S/T album, lol. There's a reason why it's rated so poorly by so many- it's not very good. In general, people just don't like it. It really is as simple as that.

 

Yep, here we go with the condescending "you guys don't like the first two albums because you don't GET it/are following the crowd" posts.

The self titled isn't good. Period. SP is a step up and is worth discussing, but it doesn't hold a candle to the other 7 that follow it

 

From what I recall of the 1994 s/t album, it was almost unlistenable to my ears. I don't even have it in my iTunes because I knew I would never want to listen to it. This was like nine years ago and I haven't given it a try since.

 

Every now and then I'll play the first few songs but that's about all I can stand

 

I think that's a very reductive way of interpreting my post.

 

I mean, dude, you've done this twice now. You act like people don't like Static or self-titled because they don't know any better or something. Just accept that people don't like them, just like you don't like Invented or Chase This Light.

 

You're totally missing my point. You don't think there's some psychology at play when people judge art that is influenced by the context in which they experience it? I'm not just some toddler throwing my toys out of my pram because people don't agree with me, I'm trying to have an intellectual discussion about the things that influence us subconsciously as humans. I'm not excusing myself from anything. Why you all gotta take everything so personally?

 

This isn't anything to do with intellectual discussion. This is you acting as if the S/T is just a misunderstood album that most people haven't spent enough time with to truly understand. This isn't the case- it's simply a bad album. If you like it, that's great. But you're clearly an outlier. I mean, as you said, even the band itself has disregarded it.

Do you use this argument everytime an album you personally like is poorly received?

 

Context obviously matters, but I don't think the context you are referring to is that much of a factor. I think the fact that you are suggesting as much belittles people in this thread and their ability to decide things for themselves. There is ample evidence in here that our users are able to arrive at their own conclusions about this band's discography. Otherwise, we wouldn't have such dramatically different album rankings from one user to the next.

I really am not taking this personally, trust me. If you want to think I hive-minded my way to my decision that self-titled is bad, you can go right ahead. I've been a fan of this band for long enough to know that isn't the case. But you really can't be surprised that you don't get a good response when you're basically implying that people in here only consider their favorite/least favorite albums as such because of what they've read online. I understand what you are trying to say and I think it's misguided.

 

Have you ever disliked an album at first but then spent more time with it and eventually loved it?
If so, does the amount of extra time you invest in that album ever correlate with its critical acclaim?
If so, do you not see my point?

I'm not saying that if everyone spent more time with S/T they would all love it. That's completely reductive of my point. I'm saying that when you aggregate everyone's opinions on all albums, and theoretically compensate for the amount that their subconcious has been influenced by the opinions of others, then there would be a slight shift in that aggregate score towards a more neutral opinion.

 

Way to take what I said and exagerate it to make your point.

I'm not talking about this forum. The person I replied to didn't ask why people on this forum don't like S/T. I was being more general, and commenting on how external forces can influence opinions in subtle ways, and that when you add all of those subtle differences together, it can result in a somewhat biased aggregate of everyone's opinions.

Give 10,000 alt-rock fans The Devil and God by Brand New. Don't tell them who it's by. Don't tell them that it's critically-aclaimed.

Then do the same with 10,000 other alt-rock fans but this time they've heard of Brand New and are aware of the album's critical acclaim.

I guarantee you the second group will rate the album higher on average than the first group.

That's my point. I'm talking more generally about how less well-received albums' aggregate score gets dragged further down, and highly-rated albums' aggregate score gets pulled higher up, based on the influence of the internet and what have you.

I'm talking more generally and not accusing anyone here. You want to argue that nobody here has ever been subject to subconscious influence, fine. But I'll be the first to admit that my opinions are not entirely unbiased or in a vacuum away from the influence of what others think.

 

I've tried so many times to like Static Prevails. Sat down with the lyrics and followed along to every song. Listened to it while working, etc. JEW are one of my favorite bands, if not my favorite. I just think it's a bad album. The first album is borderline un-listenable. I get your point--to be honest I just had this happen with Sam's Town. I loved Hot Fuss, heard a lot of about how average Sam's Town was and never gave it an honest chance. 10 years later I am loving the hell out of it. That's not the case with the first two JEW albums. There are songs in there that are decent, but overall they are not good albums. I think most people here would agree that we all want to like these albums--the infant years of one of our favorite bands--but reality is they are just not good records.

 

I never really listen to SP, but that's just out of personal laziness and I know that it's a respectable album (even though it's by far my least favorite JEW album).

S/T on the other hand, is just a crappy pop punk record that no one would even remember in the slightest if the band just went on to do other things.

Think of it like the Yellowcard albums pre-OFTK. They don't even get ranked when people do album listings because they so clearly belong at the bottom.

 

Thanks for taking the time to think about the point I was trying to make. Of course lots of people tried to get into Static and just don't like it and that's a perfectly valid opinion to have. No less valid than my opinion that it's great. Interesting to hear your experience of Sam's Town.