Invasion of Ukraine • Page 43

This is one turd of a tweet; these results are Putin's fault, no if, and, or but

 

The tweet isn't saying that Putin didn't start the war, obviously he did, that's a matter of fact. But if you genuinely believe that the American government cares about the Ukrainian people, and that it isn't simply pursuing its own geostrategic objectives in the region, I have a bridge to sell you.

 

The issue with Ajamu is that he presents no solution whatsoever to Putin's actions; he strictly wants no war whatsoever. Putin wants Ukraine's lands? Sure, let him have it, as long as war is avoided. Fuck this dude

 

I'm not sure why he has to have a solution ready to go as a precondition of criticising US foreign policy? Putin should be condemned for his war crimes and in a just-world he would stand trial in the Hague, but then if we're being fair, the same logic applies to Joe Biden and many of his colleagues. He was one of the biggest cheerleaders for the Iraq War, a war that killed a million people and caused endless misery for millions more. To quote the article linked above: "The Iraq war has generally been seen as one of the worst US foreign policy blunders in decades. It fueled the spread of terrorism and destabilized the Middle East and parts of north Africa." Biden's government is still fueling the war in Yemen: "According to recent estimates from the United Nations (UN), the conflict has now killed at least 370,000 people — an astonishing 70 percent of them children, many of whom have died as a result of famine or preventable disease."

Since the end of WW2 and even more so since the collapse of the Soviet Union, we've lived in a world under the hegemony of the U.S.; the claim that the U.S. has had no impact in shaping that world and the conflicts that occur in it does not hold up to serious scrutiny. The American government does not care about peace or the well-being of the Ukrainian people, they act only to advance the interests of the U.S. capitalist class.

 

All of that can be true (and is), AND it can also be true that helping out the Ukrainians is actually the right thing to do this time, regardless of the ulterior motives for doing so.

 

Alternatively, stop using Ukrainians as cannon fodder in a proxy war between Russia and NATO and start negotiating a peace deal. Continuing to pour weapons into Ukraine is not a long term strategy.

 

Ukraine doesn’t seem interested in a peace deal that doesn’t start with “Russia gives up all land claims to our country and gets out immediately”, and Russia doesn’t seem inclined to want to do that, so….

 

The major problem I have with that critique of US foreign policy and that overall take on this conflict is that it absolves Putin of any and all responsibility for his actions while also completely removing all agency from the Ukrainian people. I do think it is possible to critique US foreign policy without doing either or both of those things.

 

...give up on any attempt at negotiation and let Ukraine be destroyed?

 

And Ukraine giving up ANY land is also a complete non-starter, so unless Putin is willing to give up all Ukrainian land they took, it makes ZERO sense to pursue a peace deal

 

Which part of calling Putin a war criminal absolves him of responsibility? I think NATO expansion is only one of many causes of the war.

 

I'm not being sarcastic or a smartass here, this is a real question - do you think Ukraine has a say in this or should it be settled completely between the United States / NATO / The West and Russia...?

 

Chances of Ukraine being destroyed now are much lower than at the start of the war; IF Western support keeps up at the rate it has, and from what we've seen so far I don't see it slowing down, there's no way Russian comes out the winner of this. Ukraine is destroying Russian soldiers and equipment at a pretty good rate higher than at any point in the war, and Russian gains have pretty much stopped since early July, so the balance has now shifted to Ukraine's side, and it's only a matter of time before Kherson falls back to Ukraine. Crimea will take longer, but we don't know yet how hard Russia will cling to that land.

 

The absolute #1 goal for Ukraine and the West is and should be getting all Ukrainian land back from Russia - any policy or decision that goes against that goal is a non-starter. You ask any Ukrainian on the ground there (or abroad) about how they think this war should be resolved, and 95% of them will want a complete victory, of all Ukrainian land taken back.

 

That was directed more at the line of thinking put forth in those tweets by Ajamu Baraka than you specifically. I'm not familiar with the guy before this but I read through his Twitter feed as much as I was allowed.

 

Who said that? It should always be the hope, but right now the reality is neither side wants to negotiate a truce. You can’t force them to negotiate if they don’t want to lol

 

Ukraine hasn't had a say for decades, and with this most recent conflict any agency they had was supplanted by Victoria Nuland in 2014. Pretending otherwise ignores history.

Who is Victoria Nuland? A really bad idea as a key player in Biden's foreign policy team

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/RussiaUkra...elensky_paid_a_visit_to_his_wounded_warriors/

 

I can't begin to wrap my head around how much the occupied areas must be mined.
Imagine wanting to occupy a country or part of it and filling the land with mines. It's a mix of pre-admitting defeat and going for even more indifferentiated killing.

Russia is the agressor, is fully responsible and is going out of its way to maximize violence of all kinds.

 

It's the same with them completely leveling all those cities in the east, especially Mariupol; like if they did end up keeping all that territory, and so wanted to rebuild all those cities, that would cost hundreds of billions to do all that rebuilding. Just makes no sense.

 

Also I won't pretend I can wrap my head around all the consequences, diplomatic, economic and military, but using nuclear facilities as artillery bases is hostage taking and should on some level, on its own, mark Russia as resorting to terrorism.

But I'm definitely not looking to discuss what should or not in general be classified as terrorism, by Russia or any state. Whether it be ethnic cleansing, city-leveling or civilian-killing drone strikes.

 

Great thread on latest military aid package to Ukraine