General Politics Discussion (XI) [ARCHIVED] World • Page 1339

I guess where I land is that anyone who supports what Israel is doing is either ignorant or not a good person.

But I struggle with not caring about polling because the alternative means that the GOP gets even more power, and things get much, much worse than they already are for a whole lot more people.

I don't know the right thing to do here when primaries are already over. But I certainly am not celebrating genocide and have made my views clear on that to the people around me.

 

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David "pointing things out" is the exact same as right wingers "just asking questions."

 

okay so my point is how is not *everybody* yelling STOP THE FUCKING GENOCIDE at top of their lungs. like I don't give a fuck about inflation as long as israel is literally razing an entire population.

 

You see, the genocide in Gaza is directly impacting us.

 

there are nights I literally can't sleep because I'm so mad about Palestine.

 

yes it is a very good thing that people are excited about policy shifts from the 1990s Dems to todays Dems! It’s further incentive for them to continue moving that direction! If people were mad or upset or not excited about it, it would be bad for that shift continuing in the future!

 

yeah, and I’m not even talking bout that

 

Wharf, what do you think we need to do to end the genocide? Like what concrete steps can we random people on the internet take to make the government stop supporting it? Arguing all day on a music forum sure as hell isn't fixing anything.

 

I gotta say I got a good chuckle out of my post coming directly after yours

 

or… maybe if an organized group of people not excited about that leveraged their vote for something more substantial.

 

Okay...so you are glad people are supporting the genocidal democratic party? yes or no?

 

Well, theres the things that I can say that will make Jason need to consult his lawyer.

within the framework of liberal democracy people can leverage their vote as people are doing.

outside of that, which is my admittedly arm chair critique of the free Palestine movement as a whole, strikes.

 

I just think discussing a genocide in terms of popularity or polling or political expediency is super gross and off-putting. We all know David's whole bit about pragmatism and making the case for getting more people to "join" a side, but we're talking about families getting murdered in a shelter, entire towns and institutions bombed, and soldiers randomly deciding to kill someone's son or daughter with no recourse. And we're actively aiding that happening and to just say "hmmm let's see how it polls" like you're Kent Davison in VEEP is so bleak on a human level

 

Idunno man, I guess we just support the people doing it.

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I was asking a genuine question but I think you just want to argue and give snarky responses. Did I ever say I supported them?

 

It was a genuine question! There was no snark when he said “arguing all day on a music forum sure as hell isn’t fixing anything.”

Not sure how you missed the sincerity.

 

Let it be known, that the answer to any question of that sort in this forum be, organize.

 

Ducking atrocious and it's shameful that the same kind of coverage isn't being shown here in the US.

And again, if you think the Republican party is more likely to, I have an even bigger bridge to sell you but this bridge is in CA.

Exactly. Yes this should be an even bigger issue here and fuck Israel and fuck the IDF and I'm happy people care so much but asking for it to be everyone's #1 issue is a hard sell. The hard and sad reality is that most people are gonna care about domestic issues over something happening across the world. I WISH more people cared, or at least cared as much about Palestine as they do/did about Ukraine. ANOTHER harsh and unfortunate reality is that yes, islamophobia is still a thing and yes, Christian nationalism is still HUGE here so with those two issues combined.....yeah. I don't have any solutions. I understand people caring about Palestine but I'm if the mind that keeping the GOP from advancing it's agenda should take somewhat of a priority. I applaud people with strong enough values to feel so strongly about an issue but if we let the GOP back in MAGA runs wild and Project 2025 comes into fruition.....I can assure you people will stop being concerned about another country's issues because we will be full to the brim with enough of our own citizens being fucked over.

David's not Hitler. Fuck Israel. Free Palestine. A vote for Kamala or even excitement over the party is NOT an endorsement of Israel's actions. It's entirely possible to be critical of them and demand change while also saying you're standing up against another MAGA takeover.

Not acknowledge AOC is fire lol.

 

What’s funny is they actually is precedent for a republican president haulting israel doing a “holocaust.” But that was Reagan’s GOP.

 

I think it's okay to expect leaders to act in a humane way even when it's not popular or convenient. If people want to trot out "mmm the reality is people don't see it as a high priority, actually" then guess what I don't see voting for you as a high priority either so good luck at the polls and if I hear any whining about leftist making Harris uncomfortable for her stances on the genocide at a rally or outside the DNC or how encouraging people not to vote for the genocide-enabler is only helping Trump than I wish nothing but misery for you until you grow a heart and have empathy for people losing their family and homes every single day with bombs and guns supplied by your taxes

 

I only have theories about this so nothing that feels like a great answer because there really isnt a great answer to that question or one that will feel good. Only thing I can come up with is in the past, images like what are coming out of Gaza have sometimes been enough to spur a massive backlash and change hearts and minds. And I don't know why that isn't happening this time other than we've been inundated for the last 40+ years with footage of (often)American bombs making rubble out of buildings and people just aren't...fazed by it anymore? Idk. It's horribly depressing. The jingoism of the post 9/11 years really hardened a lot of people to those images back then it seemed like, and our govt was aided and abetted by the media at the time in not always showing the horrors we were inflicting to begin with. Fatigue set in and then you had the insanity of the last 8 years with Trump and then Covid and people just seem to have become very "ho hum okay" about anything and everything these days. Shit that used to sink presidential campaigns barely gets reported on. Our politicians, not even just trump, regularly say insane things and people ignore it or at least don't get up in arms about it. Our climate is literally changing before peoples eyes after many of them spent the last 20 years thinking this would be something we would see in like 2050 and the reaction is...shit is the reaction even there? It doesn't feel like it, definitely not one as loud and as strong as I think is warranted. People watched a million Americans die of acute infection from a new virus in a little over a years time and now completely ignore that it's still killing tens of thousands a year, increasing risk of other top 10 cause of deaths in the country like stroke and heart attack, and ignore the constant drum beat of studies that come out that points out its still crippling millions of people a year.

So now something horrible is happening in the world and American troops aren't directly doing it themselves so people feel even more disconnected from it than they already would otherwise. I think there are millions (hundreds of millions?) of Americans out there that think what Israel is doing is unfathomable and horrible, and at the same time feel so consumed by other big things in their lives/in their purview that it stops with those thoughts of how horrible it is. Definitely some people out there had that post 9/11 reflex too where they were like "oh yeah it was a terrorist attack, of course they responded" and didn't realize just how bad it was. It just really feels like an attitude of "nothing matters" has settled in on people, partially the fault of our government, partially the fault of the internet, partially the fault of media/news, etc. Before Trump and Covid I was convinced education and organization could get more people to care about the issues. I still somewhat believe that, but feel like it has gotten so much harder. Probably why I tend to care how movements I agree with and want to succeed are or may be perceived. If the right groups of people aren't engaged in the political process, I fear what that would do to further the disconnect.

Didn't mean to get so depressing here lol. But it's something I've been thinking about for a while now.

 

king shit

 

I can only imagine this happened by the average Colombian voter putting foreign policy over domestic policy.