General Politics Discussion (X) [ARCHIVED] • Page 1461

Burning Man: Police investigating death during heavy rain

"More rain is expected and the authorities have said that it could be several days before the ground dries up enough for people to leave.

For this reason, they have been told to conserve their food, water and fuel.

The festival's toilets are also out of use, revellers say, because the service vehicles cannot drive on the mud to empty them.

More than 70,000 people had arrived at the site before it was closed on Saturday but the exact number of those still there is unclear.

Some have managed to leave the site, however. American DJ Diplo wrote on X, formerly Twitter, that he and comedian Chris Rock walked 5miles (8km) to a road, where they were given a lift by fans."

 

*those who occupied Latvia from the nazi's. It doesnt count as liberation when you annex it for youself.

Latvia liberated itself in 1920 from Russia
Russia invaded and annexed it back in 1940
Germany annexed in WW2
Russia annexed it back

 

Latvia was not annexed by Russia in 1940. Are you comparing the Nazi occupation of Latvia to the creation of the Latvian SSR? Do you really think they are comparable?

 

There is one legitimate reason to not consider it "liberation" from the Nazis for the Latvians, because they quite liked Nazi rule. It was the Latvian Jews and Roma primarily who were "liberated"

Latvians march to honor troops who fought alongside Nazis

HITLER'S FOOT SOLDIERS: Latvia's Nazis are the pride of the country, says defence minister — espritdecorps

Patriots or Nazi collaborators? Latvians march to commemorate SS veterans

 

Not for nothing, if you search the Yad Vashem archive for "Levitas" or "Lewitas" in Riga, you get a cool list of my extended family who were murdered because the USSR couldn't """annex""" Latvia earlier.

 

The soviets coluded with the nazis to invade Latvia in 1940
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact

The June Deportation campaigns resulted in genocidal levels of depopulation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_deportation

Soviet Genocide? Communist Mass Deportations in the Baltic States and International Law | Leiden Journal of International Law | Cambridge Core

On August 22, 1996, the Latvian parliament adopted a declaration which stated that the Soviet occupation of Latvia in 1940 was a military occupation and an illegal incorporation.

I am not equating the soviet occupation to the nazi's, I oppose all imperialistic annexations and will not celebrate one just because it wasnt as bad as the nazi's.

 

Latvians seem to have plenty of reasons to dislike both the Nazis and the Soviets, and would probably play down how bad one side or the other was depending on who they hated more. We don’t have to pretend their sudden interest in tearing down Soviet era statues is because of a sudden love for Nazis, completely unrelated to current global events going on in their front yard right now hah

 

Good thread the last couple days imo

 

The Molotov Ribbentrop pact was signed after Stalin had proposed anti-nazi pacts to France and Britain and been rebuffed. I am aware of it and is perhaps the worst mark on the Soviets but the level of pre-war Soviet collusion with the nazis pales in comparison to that of Britain and the US especially.

The deportations are another of the greatest black marks but were also a holdover method of control from the Russian Empire and which would have undoubtedly continued as bad or worse had the whites won the civil war as the Western Allies wanted so badly.

The June Deportations article you link cites as the source for “The June Deportations were a campaign in a much larger history of depopulation” an article called "Soviet deportations of OUN family members from Western Ukraine in 1940–1952". The OUN are a nazi collaborator organization. What should have been done?

For the claim that "The "Stalin Deportations" from 1928-1953 lead to genocide of 13 different nationalities" the article cites "Stalin's genocide against the "Repressed Peoples" by Otto J Pohl. Professor Pohl is on twitter. In the last week he has tweeted "BAN THE ADL" and "The average IQ of Einsatzgruppen members was 137 and they were not even the very smartest members of the National Socialist state."

I could give a shit what the nazi Latvian parliament has to say about genocide, I'm sorry.

You are trying not to "equate" them, but you are parroting points created by the antisemitic "dual dictorship" school of thought about world war 2 that served to downplay nazi crimes and elevate soviet ones for Cold War purposes.

It's a very old love for Nazis.

 

Okay, but even that “very old love for Nazis” seemed to allow these statues to stand for the last 30 years after the Soviet collapse. What could be happening now that would suddenly cause them to tear those statues down that they didn’t feel the need to do so before?

 

not a cult

it would be funny if they were doing it just because the pictures look funny and not because you just know they’re thinking “lmao gonna trigger the libs so hard”

 

Im not downplaying anyones crimes, I want both sides crimes to be recognised for there respective severities. There are no nazi statues. I stand by not recognising that Russia "liberated" Latvia because it did not. I understand that the Latvian people still have mixed feeling on soviet statues and I support them in coming to a decision that reflects the will of the people and their history fairly.

 

It is admittedly jarring to see something other than a steady stream of Ron Filipowski and Eric Topol tweets

 

Not sure what you’re getting at. But also, not what I’m talking about.

 

Assuming you're talking about what I think you're talking about, it's interesting to see the people who think something's wrong vs. the people who don't know that anything's wrong.

 

Yeah, I thought the racial purity shit would have more of a unanimous “This is not tolerated here” feeling among everyone.

 

There are nazis parades and nazi commemorations with government support:

But it was in September when the Latvian government further solidified its official support for Hitler’s loyal foot soldiers. “Latvian legionnaires are the pride of the Latvian people and of the state,” said the country’s Minister of Defence Artis Pabriks. “We will honor the memory of the fallen legionnaires, and we will not allow anyone to discredit their memory.”

“It is our duty to honour these Latvian patriots from the depths of our soul,” he added.

Pabriks’ comments drew immediate condemnation from Jewish groups.

So who are these patriots that the Latvians so eagerly embrace?

They were a combination of Nazi collaborators, killers of Jewish women and children, and conscripts. Adolf Hitler ordered the creation of the Latvian SS divisions in 1943, with the initial core of the force made up of members of Latvian police and militia units such as the Arajs Kommando, which participated in the murder of at least 26,000 Jews during the Holocaust. Large numbers of Latvians were also conscripted to join the new SS units.

The members of the Latvian Legion swore allegiance to Hitler and while Latvian government officials claim their first loyalty was to Latvia, these soldiers were among the most loyal Nazis who made their last stand in Berlin against the Russian army as they defended SS leader Heinrich Himmler’s headquarters.

Among the Legion’s officers was Viktors Arajs, the anti-Semite who liked to refer himself as “Arajs, the Latvian Jew-killer.”

Arajs once regaled guests at a dinner party in Riga with his views on the best method to kill Jewish babies, according to the book, The Holocaust in Latvia. Arajs told his dinner party participants he would throw the children into the air and then shoot them. That way he avoided any ricochets that might happen if he murdered the babies on the ground.

Arajs was found guilty by a German court for his role in the murder of 13,000 Jews. He died in prison.

Perhaps the fact the USSR couldn't liberate Latvian Jews and Roma soon enough has something to do with their liberation not counting as the liberation of "Latvia" and that the consensus view of the Latvian people on their history is to honor the guy who murdered more Jews in than currently live in Latvia. That's cool that you respect & support this commemoration though - it is the views and will of the Latvian people after all

 

Ben is on the uppers again