General Politics Discussion (VI) [ARCHIVED] • Page 20

Bernie/Abrams

 

Bernie / Warren (either order) is the dream

Bernie and Kamala would probably attract the largest base of voters

Anyone else would be a likely miss, but I like the idea of Abrams.

She and Beto are just too valuable to the Senate still.

 

I def see some of this too....but as a debbie downer I must say.....

we're gonna see a lot of this same reaction from a lot of people when Biden gets in. A lot of those same people really like Biden aka "Uncle Joe".

Biden might be doing the smart thing by waiting to be the last major name to jump in, IMO

 

That's my belief as well.

I could get on board with Warren/Harris as well. But I feel like her advisors would tell her she needs to go with a guy.

 

I hope Biden dies of old age

 

If people won’t drag her for cultural appropriation they better drag her for trying to relate to piers Morgan like he’s an actual human. Fuck that.

 

My favorite reoccurring thing in this thread is David trying to convince me (and others) I should like someone I do not like at all. It's the worst strategy too because it makes me dislike every little "we gotta inspire and reach across the aisle and do nothing" speech from him even more.

 

He is. And so is Harris. And virtually every major candidate in right now. Klobuchar gets a big side eye from me and if she won the nomination I'd deeply sigh and say she's disappointing but 'okay'.

Obviously don't fucking want that, but I'm not gonna engage in the 'every candidate is awful if they're not doing everything I want' stuff, even in the primary. Didn't do it in 2015, don't wanna do it now

 

I think the primary is for exactly this though.

 

You keep saying this like I'm going to all of a sudden have a different opinion. I won't.

Well, I have standards and an ideology. So I'm going to point out why some candidates are way, way better than the others in hopes that we don't end up Biden or Booker or some dumbass that not only could lose to Trump in a general but if they win they'll not do what I want anyway.

 

Imagine how many times david would tell this thread in 2023 that “actually booker was the most progressive part of the Bernie administration.”

 

He only took most of the pharma money guys, not all, come on.

 

There's a difference between saying you should "like" someone vs. pushing back on the "OMG THEY'RE HORRIBLE" stuff. The only major candidate that even approaches that is Klobuchar and even she is an improvement over anything the Democrats have done in 3+ decades as a party. She's the cautious, centrist candidate saying she wants to do a public option. If that's the center right now, then thank the gods. Obama was a radical for suggesting as much in 2007.

My not so bold prediction is if someone who is currently a senator wins the election and has spent the last 6 years (or whatever their tenure is under 6 years cough Harris cough) in the senate minority, and they've used the filibuster to help stop GOP plans, then the filibuster will not be going anywhere. Shit, even if the nominee came out for ending it, I don't think they convince overly cautious Chuck Schumer to do it anyway. He doesn't seem like the change the rules dramatically type. Harry Reid would have been better for that, for obvious reasons.

 

It honestly is incredible that Klobuchar was able to unseat Booker as my least favorite. I was way higher on her and then she started talking...

 

Was talking about this with a buddy and I think there's 2 major ways he could do it, foreign or domestic. He could do both - which imo would be the best way, overwhelm them with leftness and make them split time hammering you on one or the other, but I think that's less likely unfortunately. But he could, for example, call Israel an apartheid state, which he obviously has a credibility advantage to say. More broadly he could take a hardline anti-interventionist stance but given his tweets on Venezuela that doesn't seem likely. The domestic way is essentially to flesh out those bullet points from the end of the GND memo - write up a real federal jobs guarantee, (green) infrastructure plan that dwarfs trump's, maybe even nationalize some fossil fuels youknow. He should do it

 

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I keep saying it because it's correct. I'm not too worried about it changing your opinion.

There's a difference between pointing out on very real policy issues why some candidates are better, and saying other candidates are thus "awful" or "bad" or etc. I'm all for Bernie's policies because they're the best ones out there. Most of the other candidates still have some pretty good ideas themselves. Just not as good as Bernies.

 

I don't think you know what an opinion is.

The policy issues are a big part of why they're bad and awful; I have said this countless times.

 

I disagree. I don't think it's about saying other candidates are terrible, suck, won't do anything good, etc. I don't really think that's all that constructive or good for convincing others why your candidate is the best. That's part of why all the Anti-Bernie hillarybot posts are so fucking annoying. They're just trying to smear Bernie at this point instead of offering any actual reasons why his policies aren't better.

 

That's probably the boldest move, because it only goes one of two ways: it wins you the election or loses it. It gets painted as antisemitic and we see if the country or Dem primary voters are at that spot yet and he probably has to walk it back in the general. But I think he's going to play it much safer as the front runner. No reason to swing for the fence on something that has almost the same odds of losing you the entire race.

I think taking the "anti-interventionalist" message is a good idea and one he has a lot of credibility to take.

He'll have to talk about the crime bill vote at some point, so I think he should start proposing more radical reform policies in that category as well.

 

is being a teacher that supports booker given his history of what he has done for public schools and teachers unions considered a self own or?

 

Yeah, but you're incorrect on that too, no matter how many countless times you've said it. Their policy issues aren't "bad" or "awful" for the most part. They all have two or three specific policies that stick out as 'bad' but overall their platforms are all pretty fucking spectacular. Of course detailed policy ideas would be best, but we're a long way from getting those from most candidates.

Warren has been good about getting specific on this so far and I've been loving it. I was gonna be a definite Bernie vote in the primary but she's really pushed me into her corner a lot to the point where I'd prob vote for whoever was still more likely to win the nomination at that point between the two over any principled stance about either one of them.

 

I really feel like most normal people would not take the idea of an antisemitic self hating Jew very seriously. I just don't think the smear would land at all like it does with Corbyn. But maybe I'm being too optimistic.

 

I think being unwilling to say a candidate's stated policies are awful, when they're awful, is a rush to mediocrity for no good reason. The entire point of a primary is to push candidates to not have awful policies and say or do dumb shit.

 

If Bernie chose Castro as VP I think that would give dems a real shot at flipping AZ, FL, and even Texas. Agree or disagree?