General Politics Discussion (V) [ARCHIVED] • Page 409

But those cases are, by and large, the only ones about free speech that actually go to trial. If you're going to defend free speech in court, that's the case you're gonna have to argue on. It's why we see a lot of amicus briefs in those cases.

One of the places I agree with Greenwald:

The ACLU is primarily a legal organization. That means they defend people’s rights in court, under principles of law. One of the governing tools of courts is precedent: the application of prior rulings to current cases. If the ACLU allows the state to suppress the free speech rights of white nationalists or neo-Nazi groups — by refusing to defend such groups when the state tries to censor them or by allowing them to have inadequate representation — then the ACLU’s ability to defend the free speech rights of groups and people that you like will be severely compromised. [...]

Leave aside the fact that the ACLU does expend vast resources to defend the rights of immigrants, minorities against abusive policing and a racist justice system, and Muslims. Beyond all that, the reason it’s vital to expend resources to defend free speech rights of awful people, even white nationalists, is because that’s where free speech battles are always and by definition fought.

 

Never forget Turtle Mitch threatened Obama into not saying anything either.

 

Yeah. It has always been strategic so that bad precedent doesn’t stifle them in the future. And the ACLU definitely feel as though their willingness to defend cases even with repugnant plaintiffs earns them a pool of goodwill with judges to draw from that is fairly difficult to quantify.

 

You can be self hating.

Also, these articles and videos do a good job of discussing his hypocrisy and dishonesty-
I Used to Think Like Dave Rubin. Then I Woke Up.
Dave Rubin, a 'political chameleon'

 

Maybe it's just me, but when someone starts their online post with a list of things and then says republican talking points ... but I don't really end up trusting much of what they said. The "I'm a democrat but here's shit right out of the GOP handbook" makes me ... suspicious.

 

Ah yes. You must rely on logic and reason to defeat the fascists! If only anyone in Germany had sat down and explained to everyone the rational evidence that says Jews are not bad. No one thought of it! Remarkable. And it definitely would've worked, too, because fascism is truly rational. It makes a lot of sense, and is the kind of thing that people readily abandon when confronted with conflicting evidence. That dude who thinks blacks are dumb because of their skull shape will surely be open to the evidence-based facts in my pamphlet.

 

As a black man, pull up your pants,

 

Yeah, I don't love it, obviously, but I understand it. Losing a case like that, that the ACLU didn't participate in, would ruin them for the cases in the future. That said, I still don't see a parallel between that happening and some college kids no-platforming a Nazi.

 

I'm a Liberal but this is why I don't Ever Criticize the Right Wing.

 

The LGBTQ community has a lot of internalized homophobia.

 

Hye, Cosby ... gtfo.

 

That may be true, but I'm a little bit skeptical that the same principles couldn't be adequately defended in cases that are less egregious than a blatant Nazi, for example. I'm not sure I would mind lessening free speech for obvious hate groups. But then again the same argument does hold up in criminal due process cases for the most part. Vigorously defending wealthy murderers and mobsters and the like have been essential in preventing abuses of the criminal justice system. The main difference to me is that the ACLU's resources are limited by capacity more than cost on a case by case basis, I just wonder if they could defend the same principles for more justifiable clients.

 

posted in the Reading & MENA threads already but i'm gonna post it here as well. the first two books on this list i would prioritize for everyone here, so they can get a better understanding of the severity.

i know @Malatesta has the first one. they're both on amazon. seriously if you have the money, and the time. i'd appreciate it.

 

Just saw this ad on tv for Bob Hugin, who's running for senate in NJ. Clearly trying to go after democrats who hate Menendez. However, based on the comments on the post he seems to alienating some conservatives, many of them comparing him to McCain and calling him a RINO

 

Will Ferrell and Adam McKay - The 40(ish) Most Powerful People in Comedy

 

rage inducing. i'm upset for the victims who were his patients. i remember seeing a clip of him saying that women shouldn't be allowed to wear make up at work because it's too sexually provocative and i'm just like ? ? ?? ? ? ? ??

 

"fuck, i really do have to stay an extra 2 months now"

 

the bi hate is very real. extra hate if you're bi girl and you're dating a dude

 

The part of the comment where he talks about "feelings or bruised egos" then basically goes on about the "proper way" to protest (heard that before) then mentions "socialist authoritarianism?"

Yeah definitely disagree with all of that. Also I don't see how I'm deflecting. I don't see how I'm regurgitating the same actions I've described that goes:

"That is *insert bigotry*"

You are being PC, Nate.

'This is also *insert bigotry*"

You are being PC, Nate.

'That is too is *insert bigotry*"

Stop promoting your PC agenda, Nate

"Socio-economic and political..."

Ah yes... feelings.

- END SKIT -

Now take the KKK. They promote racism... this is bad... for me... no matter how they promote it whether they are burning a cross, lynching black folks, or peacefully handing out reading material about how America is for the whiteys only or whatever they do. They are promoting views that infringe on my rights and my well being on a social, economic, and political level whether they're doing it in the most "polite" and "civil" manner or not.

Which brings me to my next point, civility. Liberals have an obsession with civility. They would see say... some old fart promoting eugenic "race-science" and me yelling at the dude promoting racist ideologies which will effect my life in negative ways, as the same thing! THere's also this notion that if I'm yelling or if I'm mad, then I can't possibly be rational! Oh how dare I be infuriated by racists getting a platform to promote violent ideologies, cause racism is violent and harmful materially affecting society and not about feelings and shit like that, which can not only be perpetuated in the actions of society but also codified into our countries laws and policies! Oh how dare I! Anger will only make me go to the dark side, I'll be just as bad as the racists!

Now for my last point let's get back to the content of said bigoted speech. The ideology of the KKK is by its very racist nature one that promotes silencing dissent and the infringement of my rights. It promotes anything and everything from political and economic disenfranchisement to wide spread violence and murder! If you look at the context of which this plays out there is a very, very big difference in the positions of power in play.

If you are protecting the KKK right to promote racism, you are making POC vulnerable to racism.

I am taking a nap.

 

As an outsider straight cis male, I wasn’t aware until maybe a few years ago the discrimination towards bi and trans people within the community

 

lots of internalized and externalized transphobia too, fun times

 

Yeah same here. I wasn't fully out until a few years ago and it was really eye opening.. I was stuck in my bubble until people thought I was saying I was bi for attention because I was dating a guy. it sucked.

 

Just popping in to say I appreciate the replies to my posts today! I'm headed to a concert tonight and then traveling all weekend so I'll pop in another time to resurrect the conversation as soon as people are tired of it or have forgotten about the conversation. I don't think I can write a decent reply in the next 5-10 minutes I have... Haha

 

I don't want to rehash this too much, but basically you're falling for a grift. This has nothing to do with free speech, white supremacists can't say they want to murder people on Fox News, but they can say Liberals are against the constitution. Then they build a fan base and preach that they want to murder people, organize to hurt communities, radicalize violent young men. The anti-protest talking points are a calculated deception and they work, centrists really buy in because they don't think these people are really that bad. You bought into the scam. Talk about it in a few days.

 

speaking of which