General Politics Discussion (IX) [ARCHIVED] • Page 398

I used to pay as close attention to this type of stuff as anybody I knew in real life, but I'm honestly not able to mentally even keep track of exactly what everyone is discussing here. I've had to zero my focus in on Massachusetts and our area of Massachusetts and then make my decisions of off that.

I find it extremely difficult to look at things on a national-level these days, and I think the huge discrepancies in vaccination rates play into that. What you can do safely in MA with a fully-vaccinated rate of 65% is going to differ greatly from what you can safely do in say Mississippi with a fully-vaccinated rate of 36%. And then talking about national hospitalizations - our hospital situation is much different in MA than what they are dealing with in like Texas and Louisiana right now.

My overall general take on it right now is that Delta is worse than I originally thought but at the same time the vaccines are very, very good.

 

He looks like a sentient Halloween mask of himself

 

I agree. Topol was better until recently, now it’s a lot of selective editing. Not exposing denominators and other little things that I notice. Even when “technically right” it’s narrative driven more than I find it educational or actionable. And I think some of this, as it becomes more endemic is going to need that kind of context for people to make decisions. Otherwise we get Florida level “open and do nothing” or “lock down everything” and I find those extremes not in line with the data I can find.

 

If only

 

All I know is speculation and trying to make sense of all this has made me feel awful. I’ve had to *log off* quite a bit to stay sane.

 

Screaming forever

 

right there with both of you and I guess what I’m most scared of right now is being pushed into tighter restrictions on the service industry and entertainment industry (specifically independent music and theater) when unemployment benefits have already been slashed for most and are drying up quickly for the rest of us. these industries have already been fucking ravaged and will continue to be ravaged if restrictions are put back in place that severely impact people’s ability to make any sort of living. meanwhile sports have been able to go on as usual and stadiums have been at capacity for months but that’s another conversation for another time I suppose.

plus and this probably makes me the most upset for obvious reasons but has anyone really even begun to reckon with the impact widespread lockdown policies had on addicts? the overdose numbers are insane, the relapse numbers are even worse, I personally experienced a barrier to my treatment when the pandemic hit and relapsed because of it and nearly lost my life more times than I could count in the following year fighting to get clean. many others weren’t as fortunate as I am and lost their lives as a direct result of the pandemic and the lockdowns. I bring up lockdowns because when these numbers are pushed in the way they are, you get people saying we’re headed for another lockdown (and a lot of the time people seem weirdly happy/smug when they say so), and in my opinion, lockdowns and restrictions just aren’t feasible. don’t want that to make me look like a right winger or whatever but it seriously needs to be discussed because like I said earlier covid is something we have to live with now, it’s not going away, but we can’t shut down entire industries and lock people down anytime the numbers start to scare us. that’s all. im tired of what I see as fear mongering and believe it does us absolutely no good.

 

It's like the anti-abortion people who are against birth control. Like, you have options here to get your way, but are deliberately not taking them

 

The difference is we can go into lockdowns while being better able to keep essential treatments and services open IMO. Last spring it was very much a “holy shit nobody do anything ever” because we had no idea how safe it was to do anything. This time around we could do a lockdown but still provide reasonable services to medical emergencies and addiction services and etc because we know enough to say hey, if you’re masked and we’re masked and we space this out a little bit, the danger should be very low for transmission, especially if you’re vaccinated, etc. We can definitely be smarter about any future lockdowns in they’re needed

 

Was scrolling back through my camera roll and ended up on election night/week memes. This one still makes me laugh:

 

I generally agree, but we'd also need more stimulus assistance (perhaps more targeted), which neither side really seems to have any willingness to do whatsoever at this point

 

There is no need for another lockdown in the sense of what we saw in March 2020 and I don't see there ever being the need for one for covid. Just look at the data, we know vaccines are working, and the rates among unvaccinated are skyrocketing compared to the vaccinated. "Lockdown" the unvaccinated in the form of requiring vaccines to do things like go to sporting events, concerts, entertainment, etc.

 

We can’t do that in non pandemic times.

But beside that, I don’t think you will have the political will of the people for a lockdown ever again. (Over simplifying at the margins.) Half the people got vaxxed and think “I did my part, I’m good” and the other half would never support a lockdown anyway if they won’t get a shot. Given the reality that a lockdown scenario even in the blue states seems next to impossible, I think pushing shots and explaining why masking is still important is the only thing we actually can do. If hospitalization rates for the vaccinated are less than a bad flu season, I would wager large dollars on the masses being well against any kind of lockdown. (And that’s double without government relief which we’re not getting either.)

 

I can only speak about people I know and interact with, but I know around here, anecdotally, people are very mad at those that can get the shot that don’t. Those that can’t, they want to protect, those that can and are not, they want to blame. And that anger alone I feel like is a driving force where they’re not about to lockdown again after they “did everything right” and they see a bunch of people on their screen yelling about masks, etc. I could be wrong, but that’s my reading of the room rn

 

You actually think anyone in power learned anything?

 

There is no good reason for lockdowns in a post-vaccine world. The costs would far outstrip the benefits when you can easily protect yourself and help protect the people around you (for free!) by getting a simple shot.

 

Ok I’m getting offline to go watch some TV, this was the tweet that did me in for the day

 

I think there’s a bit of a misreading about people mad about masks right now, too. Because, anecdotally, my parents who live in St. Louis county were pissed about the mask mandate. But it’s because they both are vaccinated, got the shots as soon as they could, followed lockdown rules wore masks all the time social distanced all that stuff, and then were told okay no more masks. Well all of a sudden they’re being asked to wear masks again, which they will, but they’re pissed at people who won’t go get vaccinated because and I’m with them on this they’re scared if they went back on mask mandates they’ll go back on tighter restrictions and eventually full on lockdowns. But they’re still pissed about the mask mandate, it’s why they’re pissed and who they’re pissed at

 

I lol’d at the end - “thank you sir, your time has expired”

 

I just heard his voice for the first time on Last Week Tonight this past Sunday and my first thought was"That's what he sounds like?!"

 

Yeah I figured the dress code loophole would be more common.

 

Everywhere just needs to do this.

 

Those numbers fit with the model from Lollapalooza, which had unvaccinated people testing positive at roughly a 4 to 1 rate of breakthroughs. But AGAIN: the total number of transmissions was remarkably low (we’re talking 1 in 10000 low) because with enough people vaccinated the overall risk of Covid to the general population gets completely decimated. It’s why you just need to say over and over again that vaccines work.