General Politics Discussion [ARCHIVED] • Page 97

I'll have to look into that.

You know what, I was considering re-enlisting into the Navy or enlisting in the Air Force. I was discharged during Naval boot camp due to asthma, but was misdiagnosed...long story. But the branches have since become ultra lenient with their tattoo policies (they don't give a shit anymore) and I have until I'm 35. So I'm heavily considering doing it again.

 

yeah universal healthcare would SUCK all those people not dying or living in crippling debt, just horrible

 

It would suck because the population that actually makes a successful living would have to essentially finance a government institutionalized medical program to take care of the people who refuse to work and pay for insurance themselves.

And, the hospitals would be overcrowded, just look at Canada, they have people coming here so they can be treated and PAY FOR IT.

 

There was a report that came out earlier this year that those newly insured made more frequent trips to the ER

 

ppl who can't or don't work deserve to die got it

 

In Canada?

I remember hearing a story that the waiting list was so long, people couldn't get the surgeries they needed and were forced to come to the US.

 

Entirely different argument.

Maybe living in Kansas rubbed off on me a little bit, but I refuse to have a hand dip directly into my pocket and pull out a percentage, only to pool it and pay for someone else's shit.

I mean, no more hands than what are already in my (and your) pocket(s).

 

No, in the U.S.

Newly insured patients are sicker, more expensive, report says

 

Same. I went without insurance for....3 years? 4? And I basically didn't do anything athletic during that time for fear I'd hurt myself and not be able to afford the care. Thank god I didn't get in a car accident.

Yeah I mean you really have to look at the health insurance companies websites/the details of the plans they're selling on the exchange, but for the most part they're both 1. Not allowed to refuse coverage for anything and 2. They can't cap your coverage anymore. The plans on healthcare.gov usually have brochures and coverage details you can look at, but I would definitely call the company selling the plan and talk to them about it. If you know your son needs specific services, they can usually tell you if their plan covers them.

That's part of why the insurance plans became more expensive in the first place. Before the law they could deny sick people coverage, refuse to cover certain expensive things, and they could cap your yearly coverage at a certain dollar amount. So they could cover like 50K or 100K that year, but then you're responsible for every dollar after that until the next year. Now that they can't do that anymore, they're raising prices in expectation of higher costs.

 

Gotcha.

But yea, I'd more than likely go to the doctor if I knew I had like 80% coverage. If I have to, I'd still go now, but it will take me to be dying.

 

Bro do you use roads, parks, schools, any of those things?

 

Like I said, I don't want MORE hands in my pocket.

 

If done properly your taxes might rise while your overall insurance rates drop, resulting in more cash in your pocket at the end of each month

 

Not to gang up on Dr Strong, but isn't Kansas in a shitty financial place considering its governor cut taxes in hopes of businesses hiring more people? The state has been cutting education and infrastructure funding because of its huge deficit (since they no longer had a steady stream of tax revenue) while businesses pocketed the extra cash and didn't hire people because they were able to operate with the amount of staff they had.

 

it's not an entirely different argument because the alternative is people die like they are now, all the time

In the US people can't afford the surgeries they need and then die after not getting them or go into what is essentially life-ending debt to get them

 

like sorry you might lose some of your 100k/yr to help poor people live longer, god forbid huh. they don't deserve that. why don't they just get a better job and work harder?

 

I mean, there's not much evidence that people without insurance are just people who refuse to work and pay for insurance themselves. In fact, I'd doubt that even a quarter of those people are just lazy people who don't want to work. On top of that, those people are probably already covered by Medicaid anyway. (And, again it's a misnomer to believe even half of the people on Medicaid are just lazy people who don't work...*raises hand* I'm on it)

A public health care system would most likely help the working poor the most, as those are the people who tend to work without benefits or work two or three part time jobs that don't provide benefits. And of course the people like you, contractors, who get fucked out of benefits.

The whole thing on "Wait times" is way overblown, and it's all depends on the country and the service. I.e. plenty of countries with public health care have shorter wait times than we do for certain types doctors, and we have shorter wait times for others. Many other countries get better results than we do for certain procedures, we get better results in certain others. For every story you find on a Canadian coming here for a certain service, there's a story of an American going there for one. This is mostly because the term "single payer" isn't the same pretty much anywhere. Each country does it a little differently. The NHS system in Britain, for example, is vastly different from what they have in Canada, which is vastly different from what they have in Germany, or Australia, etc. Many of those places have private insurance and/or private hospitals too, despite their claims of being a "single payer" country.

 

it was inevitable for doc to find the politics forum again, last time this happened it didnt exactly go well for him

 

I just never get this critique of single payer health care. Private insurance is literally the pooling together of money to pay for "other people's shit" unless you are one of the unfortunate ones that falls seriously ill and require costly procedures, then other people are paying for your shit. Only difference between private and single payer public is single payer should be cheaper for each individual because of more leverage in negotiating with drug/medical companies and it doesn't have to be, nor should be, run for profit.

 

Well yea, IF. But there is almost sure to be a clusterfuck in the beginning.

I don't really know about all that. I was there for work from 2013-16 and I was just commenting on the mentality of my coworkers who were the "come and take it" type of people. A direct quote from a guy who sat next to me, same age - "I'm willing to die to protect my 2nd amendment rights, are you willing to die to try and stop me?"...so a lot of that.

I don't know, I don't have an answer for those people.

I have a wife and kids to worry about. Besides the money that already comes out of my salary, I don't feel the need to pay for anyone else's anything. Call me selfish or whatever you want to say, but there is nothing wrong with the statement I just made.

Maybe it's a state thing, but I'm in Southern California now, where I grew up, and there are a LOT of people here who purposely do not work because they know government programs are there to fall back on; especially those with multiple kids. How do I know this? Because I have family that do exactly that, well in-laws that do exactly that. But I see it all the time, I could sit on my ass and not do anything and essentially MAKE MORE MONEY than someone working for $10/hour. I'm talking about cash aid (monthly cash allowance), EBT, free healthcare for kids (if you have cash aid you automatically qualify). All of this requires only your word...no paperwork needs to be filled out other than your name and social. So, scamming is rampant.

I'm not educated enough on the single payer or whatever you want to call it type of healthcare, just relaying what I might have heard second/third hand.

 

Seriously? We're having a legit conversation in here and there is no need to bait anyone.

 

right, I have an answer for them, don't send them into crippling debt for life saving surgery

you realize poor people have families as well?

 

Yeah I forgot to mention this in my post. Anyone who's getting insurance, especially employer provided insurance, is technically "paying for other people's shit". That's how risk pools work. The premium your company pays for your insurance isn't based off of just you and your family's health, but off of everyone in the office. So if you're a 25 year old working in an office of 400 people and their average age is 50, you're going to be paying higher premiums than you otherwise might be because your coworkers are older and thus tend to cost the insurance company more money...

 

the crux of this idea is that if people can't afford their insurance or their medical expenses it is their own fault. because you can afford those things, it's not your problem. those people should just work harder, and get better jobs so they can afford it, like you. if you don't see the flaw in this logic i don't know what to tell you. talk to some poor people, if you can stomach it.

"Scamming is rampant" because you know people who scam it. right. look up 'anecdotal evidence,' it's unacceptable in a "legit conversation" like what we are apparently having. again, the conclusion of these ideas is, you should not go on these government benefits, they are bad because I have to pay out of my gigantic pocket for them. you should get a minimum wage job where you have no insurance benefits and pay for your own insurance instead. This way, it doesn't harm me (except when I have to pay for your outstanding debt in the way of increased prices, but hey, i don't actually think about these things!), and then if you're lucky you'll live through your freak illnesses or accidents. but there's no answer to that, doesn't bother me, i don't care about your life

 

And they would still pay less per capita.

Also, the "refuse to work" myth has been debunked, as has the "Canadians are always coming here" myth.

There literally isn't a single argument against single payer unless you're very wealthy or profiteering.