General Politics Discussion [ARCHIVED] • Page 77

Your chief adversary here has been Dominick. At no point has he ever come from a place of ignorance. Perhaps radical, but certainly not ignorant. I assure you that he very much understands where you have come from in your arguments.

I probably agree with you on roughly half of your disputes with far left posters, but let's not broadly paint all contentions as equal just because they are in dispute.

1. Remove the face mask
2. Revert back to soft helmets and minimal padding OR to the 1980s style of padding that encumbers quick twitch movement
3. Get rid of restrictions on defensive back that serve to create separation at the second and third defensive levels and lead to more big hits

#1 and #3 are the big ones. As Vic Ketchman said, the most disastrous invention in football history was the facemask. It changed the game from one of superficial but apparent injury (broken noses, etc) to one of devastating but invisible injury (brain trauma).

 

Yes I agree. As a rugby player, my face was always fucked up, but no concussions. As far as your first point, I agree Dom def knows his shit as far as socialism. As far as how well it would actually work once implemented, I would say ignorantly confident with that. But yes I agree at no point did he not know what and why he was arguing something.

 

Also just for fun, I'd like to respond to your answer to the football question like it was the political argument. I think your answer is a lot like the conservative viewpoint, that they safety features added to football only made it more dangerous. From the radical left view point, even when there were no face masks, there were still injuries and concussions. To say that it was ever a safe sport is an ignorant comment. Football also is a sport that privileges the biggest strongest and fastest. It doesn't let most people have huge success, so they may become alienated from the game as they get older. These players that have succeeded did not have to work hard to be playing at the highest level, they were just born into the league. If you got rid of teams and scores, it would let everyone participate. And since there are no teams, scores, or rules, this would allow people to enjoy the game as they see fit, without having to worry about their skill of the game. After we shut down the sport long enough, no one would care about the competitive aspect.

 

I now wish I could take back liking your previous post.

 

Awww don't take away my like :( I know it's oversimplified but I said it was just for fun.

 

Football does mirror society. You have a handful of owners that employ players, the majority of whom are people of color, and disregard their safety for the profitability of the game. In fact, as it has progressed, more violence in the former of larger players hitting one another harder has become part of the selling point for the game. The players destroy their bodies and we see them make thirty million dollars, so no one blinks at their distress. The men who do nothing except own the franchise make billions and fight against the recognition of their distress.

 

Nate lost it for me with his burrito story
http://gawker.com/nate-silver-inspired-by-events-in-ferguson-tells-idio-1621363315

 

That is a good point. It is a really strong example of owners choosing profit over their employees health. It also shows how a union can work to fight for better work conditions.

I still think that saying owners do "nothing" is just flat wrong. It may be somewhat true in the NFL, I'm not sure, but for most businesses they probably work the hardest . It all comes down to what you consider work. Do they physically make the product? No. but assembling the product is a tiny part of the overall process to get that product to the shelves. To say that all the other activities don't count has almost no truth behind it.

Also like I've said, they take all the risk. If the company doesn't make money, they don't either. If it goes bankrupt, they can lose their house, car, essentially everything. When you said they don't take risks because the gov bails them out, that is simply not true. At least half of businesses will fail in their first 5 years.

 

Well, yet another Trump press conference that just makes me feel stupider for watching. Jeeeesus h christ, chief.

 

Oh god what he say this time.

 

But he has a "very good brain" according to himself.

Source: Trump's top foreign policy advisor? 'I'm speaking with myself'

 

Just wanted to follow up my post around business owners, and capitalism in general. We can't view capitalism as this thing that's always bad and business owners are just rich people collecting checks off the back of their employees. We also can't view success as only possible for some. Yes there are many that were born in a much better situation to succeed. But we can't view success as an impossibility based on your race and how much money you start with. The great thing about the American dream is, that anyone from any background can succeed with the right drive and perseverance. That's why so many people risk their lives to make it here.

Here is an interview with some of the most successful black entrepreneurs. These are inspiring stories of fighting through adversity and what it takes to make it in this country. These are the kinds of people that should be the role models in our country. They exemplify what the American dream has always been.

Here is another video of someone on Shark Tank who innovated a way to conserve water. Try and tell me this guy is an evil capitalist.

Are there evil capitalist? yes. Is the system perfect? no. Can we find a way to allow everyone to have the same opportunity to have their chance at living the life they aspire to. YES.

 

This is incorrect, and it seems like you've ignored what a lot of people in this thread have told you.

 

I have not ignored it, and I provided examples of people that proved it.

 

The American Dream is a myth. For the most part, it is, to quote Malcolm X, an American Nightmare for black people. Let us not get facile. Less than two percent of those born in the lower socioeconomic brackets make it to the upper brackets. Adjust that for the centuries of disenfranchisement of black people, I'm sure it is much less. So, please, before spouting platitudes, do some research and not point to exceptions that demonstrate the rule.

 

It's really hard to argue that people who work hard all have the same opportunities right now, though. I don't think even the socialists here would say that something like race makes it impossible to succeed, just that the current framework that capitalism is built around means being a POC, particularly black or hispanic, means your chances of success (assuming we define success as someone born into poverty having income mobility and all that) are significantly lower than a white person born into the same circumstances.

Now where I differ with the socialists is I have little faith a proper socialist institution is even possible, let alone that whatever form of it we got would guarantee equal opportunity for POC. But I also can't sit here and say "anyone with the right drive and perseverance can make it" because it's been shown that that is increasingly false.

 

Sure. But like I said if we fight for better rights for workers, and do a better job with access to education, maybe we can make the dream be available to all.

 

Right. And like I said we need to work hard to change the system to make it work better for all people. But when you hear stories of someone who spent 27 years in prison and got out and made himself a success, saying that it is not possible is also false. Watch the video, these are people with the right drive and perseverance. They used failure to fuel future success. I think the idea of the American dream is the right one, we just have to make sure everyone feels it's something they have access to.

 

The Mobility Myth - The New Yorker

 

This literally is what I'm saying. We need to make sure the average worker can support themselves. If we do that, if gives everyone the chance to pursue their dreams if they have them. This article in no way supports socialism.

 

I didn't say it supports socialism. I didn't really say anything at all, but it's mostly a response to you claiming "anyone" can be successful. That is demonstrably false.

 

So why did all the entrepreneurs in the video get out of some of the worst situations they could be handed? I know it's a small percentage that do, but technically, anyone can. There is nothing different between those people and others that came from a similar situation.

 

I'm aware of my white privilege and advantages over other people, but for my generation we were indoctrinated as kids about The American Dream and that we're all special snowflakes.

 

half a dozen people out of tens of millions is not a compelling argument lol

 

Not sure I follow where you are going with that one.