General Politics Discussion [ARCHIVED] • Page 589

They've already, quite successfully, attacked Trump by pointing out that you can measure someones character by the people they hang around with. Attacking Pence attacks Trump because it shows poor judgement in picking a running mate and forces Trump to either distance himself from running mate (and the religious right) or make him take an unpopular stand. So I think it could've been an effective strategy. And even if it wasn't the best strategy, LGBT right are worth taking a stand on. Saying "We don't have to actually defend LGBT rights because we're objectively better by not attacking them so people will still vote for us" is shitty behavior.

He certainly could've brought it up after the moderator mentioned Pulse. Or during the religion discussion at the end. Or even at the start when they had to talk about their qualifications in case they needed to be president (which would've put Pence on the defensive from the very start, never a bad thing). But he didn't. Cause in the end the two party system means the Dems can get away with "We're better than the republicans"

 

I'm not saying that might not have been a good strategy, I'm just saying what I think they saw as a better strategy. Personally, I don't think the VP debates matter at all, so attacking Pence doesn't do much at all - but if you can get Trump to respond somehow ... that's really what you want. I'm speaking out of my ass as a guess into the strategy. These VP debates are barely watched and soon forgotten. Trump doesn't want to distance himself from the religious right though, he wants to wrap himself in them — he's polling relatively mediocre with them at the moment. So, he wouldn't run from that. Pence backs up the portions of Conservatism Trump is relatively bad at. I didn't hear Kaine say that? I've heard him, and Clinton, deliver defenses of LGBT rights in the past though.

You really think he didn't bring it up because they don't care or because of the two party system? I'm not sure I buy into that. I think it should have been brought up, and I think Kaine's a shitty debater who doesn't know how to effectively pivot from a question being asked into how to answer it and hit your talking points better.

We've gone through two debates and the topics, by and large, have been a joke. The biggest discussion in climate change has been Trump declaring he didn't send a tweet he did after Clinton said it was a real issue.

 

This is dumb and said by at least some about basically every candidate of both parties

 

Right. But the point is that if their strategy doesn't include bringing it up, it's a shitty strategy (from a 'stand up for your fellow humans' standpoint not from a 'win the election' standpoint)

The two party system might what is stopping the dems from making climate change and LGBT rights a bigger part of the campaign. They have clearly deemed it as unimportant. But their stance on those issues (and everything else) is still miles away better than what Trump and the GOP are offering so they can get away with deeming it as unimportant.

 

I guess I just disagree on it being unimportant because it wasn't brought up by a bad debater in this debate.

 

If a President-elect dies before inauguration, does their VP still become Pres?

What's Kiefer Sutherland's position in Designated Survivor? I didn't watch it.

 

I think the last two cycles' VP debates affirmed their utility. Biden tossing around Ryan was a huge momentum shift and return to form after Obama laying an egg in the first debate with Romney.

This debate just showed (a) how lazy and unprincipled the Democratic strategy is and (b) how shitty both VP picks were. Overall it being a wash is a win for the GOP, I reckon. And it being noteworthy also lends to the GOP, as Clinton is sure to keep destroying Trump. I've said it before: stylistically Clinton is a nightmare for Trump besides her already being a world class politician and debater.

 

Ryan won that debate 48/44 by the polls.

A) disagree completely - it was completely principled. You can argue if it was right or wrongly principled, but it was definitely on message compared to Pence running from Trump. B) It being a wash helps the candidate in the lead.

 

Read / share / understand.

Assyrian Christians Live In War-Torn Limbo, Praying Against Genocide

 

I honestly can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but you know this is not pro choice, right?:
"He supports a ban on "partial birth abortions so long as there is an exception for the life and health of the mother". He also favors an "informed consent provision" in Virginia which requires abortion providers to "give women information about a whole series of things, the health consequences, et cetera, and information about adoption."

Also that's not his record, its just what he's saying now. His record:
"...as governor of Virginia (2006–10)...He supported parental notification and consent. He favored a “partial-birth abortion” ban. He pushed for “informed consent” procedures that, besides trying to persuade the woman to continue the pregnancy when really it is none of the state’s business, had the practical effect of making abortion access more cumbersome for both patient and clinic."
Tim Kaine Has a Mixed Record on Abortion. How Much Will That Matter?
"He promoted abstinence-only sex education (and later slashed funding to the program, citing research that found it wasn’t effective). He authorized the sale of “Choose Life” license plates to fund religious counseling clinics that discouraged abortion. He backed Virginia’s “informed consent” law, which requires women seeking the procedure to undergo medically unnecessary ultrasounds."
Why Tim Kaine can oppose abortion and still run with Hillary Clinton
He didn't change his tune until he got to the Senate.

 

Quick turnaround.

Kaine was clearly sent out to force Pence to defend Trump. Pence failed to. That's a win for Clinton.

 

I thought it was universal opinion that Biden absolutely trounced Ryan in that VP debate; pretty much a massacre

 

Hadn't considered this.

 

Many People Are Saying Donald Trump Is Mad About Mike Pence's Good Reviews

 

Sad!

 

Oh c'mon, he'd win on his smile alone, no matter WHO opposed him...haha.

 

I wish we could just fast forward to election day and get this all over with...

 

I can't appreciate it like women can, but same.

 

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/12/in-polls-biden-gets-a-hold/?_r=0

Time makes the heart grow fonder. Heh.