Brand New Band • Page 840

Cool. Following your own line of reasoning: He can decide to do that, but your wish can't make it happen.

Someone could decide to gift me a bunch of money, but my wish can't make it happen.

It's not irrelevant. It's simply me pointing out that wishes are just shouts into the void no matter what their object is.

 

There’s a difference, I’ll acknowledge that. And some of us happen to still disagree with the idea of calling for someone’s death as opposed to other options, I disagree with the idea that some crimes are deserving of death in the vast majority of cases and that’s okay. Not everyone has to agree on this. I’ll admit my original post was worded too strongly though, after hearing the other side I understand that other people will have justifiable reasons for supporting the other position as well.

 

but not all cases? so, you agree with me then, some crimes are fitting to have death as a punishment

 

It's only irrelevant because you just explained to me that my wish is just a wish. That obviously wasn't unclear.

Literally my post was only to share what MY wish would be.. in response to someone else wishing he would die. Stating they're just hypotheticals is redundant. All I'm saying is in an ideal world, I would rather him genuinely lead a better life than get hit by a truck. End of worthless argument.

 

I say things like "I hope 'so and so' gets hit by a truck" all the time when I'm angry. I've been known to wish ACL tears on basketball players that I'm angry at. I know that my wishing something can't make it happen (and if I could literally say 'I hope that dude's ankle breaks' and it worked, I wouldn't say it — alas I'm not magic) I'm just saying something over the top as an expression of frustration. That's how I saw the original post, just worded in a different way.

I don't think that's the same as the death penalty, but I also haven't read the rest of this thread yet.

 

Honestly not really. My main position is that it’s irrelevant because I don’t think there could ever be a method of capital punishment that in practice wouldn’t end up serving FAR more injustice than justice. So that sort of ties back into my point that I don’t think hypothetically calling for someone’s death is productive because to me, that feeds into the same “tough on crime” mentality that leads to things like capital punishment in the first place. It serves no practical purpose and just comes off as “Who can come up with the most extreme form of punishment for this person”.

 

ok well we agree capital punishment in practice would never work so whatever. but saying i hope jesse dies isnt the same as literally calling for him to be killed. this really isnt that hard unless you're reading the statement as literally as possible which comes across as reading it in really really bad faith

 

I just added this last sentence which I feel like explains my position a little better: “It serves no practical purpose and just comes off as “Who can come up with the most extreme form of punishment for this person”.” I just feel like it’s the mentality that shifts away from how to prevent these things from happening in the future, and more towards a violent retributive mindset that I think society should shift away from. Again that’s just my perspective.

 

I have all three editions, including the one from Australia. They're all behind my tv still in the OG shipping package.

 

"But wishing he dies or gets hit by a truck does nothing" is the entire reason I responded to you the way that I did. You posited that the hypothetical was pointless in all practical terms - I was merely noting that the flip side of that coin is no different.

Believe it or not, nobody was coming for you. This "argument" was a nonstarter - my tone has been perfectly measured and there was no inferred hostility in my tone despite your dismissive language...but go off I guess.

~Irrelevant, worthless argument~ ended.

 

thats an incredibly deep reading of a hyperbolic statement of anger, like wow its not as if other people were saying "well oh yeah? i hope he gets struck by lightning!" and shit trying to one up each other like jeez lol what are you even talking about

 

Last thing I'm gonna say about any of this, in light of the "is this productive" conversation:

One of my friends asked me last year what "closure" with my abuser (while I've had a few, she was referring to the one who gave me c-PTSD) would actually look like for me. Where lasting peace and security would come from - what would feel like "justice".

Now, while I'm working and fighting on a daily basis to lessen my symptoms - which has worked to an extent, because my pool of triggers has shrunk considerably from the start of this journey 4 years ago - and have reached a place where I am quite content with where my life is going, I'm not going to pretend my conclusion wasn't what it was. Frankly, it surprised me when I reached it because I don't know that I'd ever really asked myself that question. I know telling him off didn't bring me "closure"; I know seeing things go badly for him didn't bring me closure; but honestly?

I told her that the day I felt completely at peace with what happened, the day I felt safe would be the day he didn't exist on the same planet as me anymore. Don't much know or care how that would be achieved.

Do with that what y'all will. That's just me, and obviously not everyone who has been abused would agree with it. But I think it needs to be explicitly said and understood that the position can come from a very visceral, completely non-hypothetical place for survivors and I might not know where the line is in terms of being empathetic towards that (since obviously conversations about death can be very upsetting for some), but I do know that the perspective matters.

 

An enlightening quote from John Darnielle :

“I ask survivors when they come up to me at the merch line, "has your abuser died yet?" And they will say, "no" and I will say, "I want you to be ready, cause it is, I hate to say this (I don't wish death on anybody), it is wonderful when your abuser dies. It's wonderful, it's like nothing in the world. It's like you are free." There's a feeling that you will never be free of what you were, you know, there's that...But to know that the person who used to hurt you no longer can is very very very deep. It's unbelievable.”

 

Also I absolutely love that a conversation that was about how jesse lacey doesnt give a shit that he hurt people and hits up people with bn tshirts and revels in the fact he still has fans got derailed into whether the death penalty is right or wrong because a bunch of cis dudes were upset that someone said something a little hyperbolic about an abusive fellow cis dude.

 

Like... do I actively ~wish death~ on him? That would feel like inviting his energy to remain in my life and I've got no room for that.

But I'll sleep well the day I found out he's gone and if that's sooner rather than later, I'm good with that too - and I can't apologize for that.

 

Well to clarify, I wasn't stating that the idea of "wishing" does nothing. I was stating that the effect of his hypothetical wish would do nothing to better the situation, where as the effect of my hypothetical wish potentially would.

Didn't think you were "coming for me." My "worthless argument" comment was directed at myself as much as it was at you. No intended dismissiveness on my end, just wasn't sure why we were even going back and forth about hypotheticals haha

 

I mean, didn’t JL say in his “statement” that he’d gone to therapy for being a sex addict or something? And he STILL put out that self-serving, ‘pls forget what I actually did and think about my poor wife’ dumpster fire of a statement? I don’t think therapy is the answer here. He had a very real opportunity to display what kind of character he had, and he did that loud and clear. It just wasn’t the character everyone was hoping for.

 

I can’t with the assumptions from shit like this, dude. Plenty yikes about it from where I sit, but do you. Everything about this discussion is all around worthless and no longer constructive.

 

I miss when this website was a constructive place full of people who were actually providing insight and valid perspectives to better our culture, instead of people spewing hateful vitriol and calling it progressive.

 

*plays tiniest violin for the poor paedo abuser who got "hateful vitriol" spewed at him* truly tragic. What happened to good civil discourse. I can't believe marginalised and victimised populations would be so RUDE to rapists that target them. It's PC culture gone too far!

 

No, you fucking dick. You really have me wasting my time on this shit while I’m on vacation right now. I don’t need you lecturing me when you don’t know me. You don’t know how I talk my girlfriend down due to panic attacks that jar her awake in cold sweats two or three times a week from her rape or molestation experiences (and I’ve treaded this point in here before—she still supports Brand New and listens, and I’m quite obviously not going to hold that against her). I have no time for you to insinuate I am a bad ally (“a dude”) or explicitly calling for someone to die on the internet. Fucking weirdo.

 

imagine reading the last page thinking there's no insight and valid perspectives to hear from despite posts like these:

 

May I wager you're taking this WAY too personally and this really isn't about you and that nowhere did I call you a bad ally? You can be a decent boyfriend to your girlfriend and also say whack shit policing someone's harmless venting when yeah, you're a cis dude, that's not an insult, that's not an insinuation. You're a cis dude and you don't know what it's like not to be a cis dude in this world and your "yikes"-ing in this situation is clearly a product of that privilege. If you want to rest on your vacation I suggest you log off and don't get upset that I'm slightly pissed off this particular rapist is still breathing. It's really not hard.

Also you should like, totally read the rest of the thread because you're totally off kilter on the conversation and this post is WILD

 

Didn't really want to chime in much on this but victims and those belonging to groups that frequently are victims to sexual violence don't have to be nice to abusers, and especially don't have to be nice when people call them out for that anger making them uncomfortable. The post that started this of Jesse interacting with a fan makes me uncomfortable, and especially makes me think of the fact that those who have done similar things to him are living their life free of major consequences while victims go under great emotional, financial, and physical strain. Sure, in Jesse's case, he probably can't play a show again, but his music is still around to be bought and profited from, and people still speak highly of him. And I think of meeting people at other concerts who speak positively of them and feel uncomfortable, not knowing what their position is and their general respect for abuse victims. Because sure, there's some that understand the actions, believe them, but just feel attachment to the music, and there are others who have made a big portion of their lives trying to disprove the victims. It makes me feel unsafe.

As someone who has faced sexual violence and is constantly in fear and at risk for it in the future, and who's life is largely affected by it, sometimes when i see things such as that reddit post I just want to be emotional. And maybe that emotion is wishing for gruesome things. Then to be told that emotion is too much and in some ways, implying that my emotional response does not fit the crime, it's invalidating and further frustrating. That may not be your intentions, but it does come off that way. In addition, people only wanting to hear from people, especially those largely effected by these issues, when its constructive and useful, seems to be poor taste. Sometimes I just wanna be upset. We can argue if this is the right place for it all you want, but it holds very little real life consequences.

This is very much all over the place and I apologize for that, it's very warm today and I have trouble thinking straight.

 

You are coming off as a very toxic individual, with all due respect. Let’s not invalidate the arguements of others based off of their identify, first and foremost....