Brand New - Science Fiction (August 17, 2017) [ARCHIVED] Album • Page 1687

the only thing i disagree with is that i hope it isn’t used as a model, or seen that way, because the likelihood of a scenario like that repeating is so rare. which makes it that much more weird to compare conor to, like, any of these other situations

 

I know it'll sound selfish but I'm still grieving over the loss of one of my favorite bands ever. Those albums meant so much to me and I have such important memories and they're forever tainted. Obviously the victims have it waaaay worse but I can't believe I'm still hurting a week later

 

This makes sense. I guess I only included that statement to say that IF this ever became a relevant issue again — and like you said, that’s a massive if — I would rather see the accused follow in the footsteps of Oberst by dropping any potential lawsuit as soon as the truth is revealed and actually using the situation to support real victims. I absolutely see where you’re coming from, though, and I could’ve articulated my thoughts more eloquently or not included that bit at all. I don’t want to distract from the real issues at hand more than has already taken place.

 

Connors situation is the 1 out of a 100 and it was proven that he didn’t do it.. so In the end the right outcome was decided.. innocent until proven guilty doesn’t have anything to do with public opinion, I want the person being accused to prove to me their innocent.. Jesse said specially I don’t defend myself on these accusations... that is your addmitance of guilt right there. It’s time to accept this as fact and move on, we know he did it, it hurts bad but let’s hope people start realizing that they will be held accountable for their actions.

 

Like fame and teebs41, after reading the Jezebel's article, even bringing Oberst in the same conversation as Lacey is bullshit. It's not the same thing. And more ammo for the truthers to hunt down the first victim to come forward. So yeah, let's not.

 

Jesse said what and when? Must have missed this.

 

Yeah, after thinking about it, I certainly need to clarify that I dont think the Oberst situation should be the model for anyone accused of sexual assault or rape. I only intended that statement to apply to those extremely rare situations in which the accuser admits fraud. I do NOT think Jesse or anyone else that has been outed as an abuser should attempt to sue their victims. The instances I’m talking about here are the one in a million, and they shouldn’t even be a point of comparison for this situation. I hope that makes sense, and I apologize if anything I said in my response to that user was insensitive, inaccurate, or inappropriate.

 

Exact quote “I don’t stand in defense of myself, and I don’t forgive myself” that was probably the only way he could basically admit to being guilty without coming out and saying it bc of legal ramifications.

 

The power dynamics I described do not make me more likely to believe him. Ultimately, I do believe him because she admitted she was lying and I think it was sincere. However, its tainted a bit for me because it was the result of a lawsuit, which often silences legitimate victims.

If he would have proven the inconstancies publicly, such as he was seemingly prepared to do in court, which I think he could have done, I think ultimately we'd be in the same place today. We'll never know. The truth is if defamation lawsuits couldn't be used in sexual assault causes far more victims of sexual assault would benefit over victims of false accusations.

Look, I'm not saying filing a defamation lawsuit when you're falsely accused is anywhere near as bad as actually sexually assaulting somebody. I said I don't find solace in Conor's music at the moment, because I think his case is being used against victims, and the way he got there is through a defamation suit, a tool which I find harmful to victims of sexual assault.

 

Now we'll never find out if Brian Lane found time to watch the Tick.

 

The fact that you think it's bad at all is seriously mind-blowing. You can try to explain it all you want, but it's still ridiculous.

 

i really don’t want to blow that out of proportion but man. do you believe everyone accused of every crime that defends themselves committed the crime? 99/100 times i’m there with you but taking this stance against conor is really fucking weird

even bringing him up is weird. it only gives more ammo to abusers to claim some defense.

 

This is silly. Defending yourself of a crime does not equal defamation lawsuits. If for example Conor was sued civilly or charged criminally with sexual assault of course he would b able to defend himself.

Again, he could have defended himself and made his claims without suing the woman in court.

 

No idea to be honest. I think the band is done. Or should be done. And should not continue on. They’ve stayed together for the money before though, so it may be too inticing.

 

you’re being deliberately obtuse. and it’s detracting from the severity of jesse (and others) allegations. please stop.

 

I don't believe in bands staying together just for the love of art. I believe in bands that stay together because that's what they do best just like we have our jobs. What is disgusting and enrages me to my fucking core is that sticking together or not, it's obvious by the fucking hour that at least the inner circle of dudes knew. One thing is to stay together for the money, other is not doing the right thing and simply leave when they could. If the rest of the band left Lacey after Deja and started their own thing back then, that's something I can understand. It isn't the rest of the band's job to deal with Lacey's shit, it's not their business to say that he was abusing people, especially because you don't expose the victims. But once they knew and sticked around, then they don't have one single fucking excuse for it. They were his accomplices. Hating and despising him or not.

 

Would you have believed him if he put all this evidence on his website in a big presentation, but she never recanted the story?

 

I’m down in London. Currently in a bar round the corner from Brixton Academy. It’s really weird.

 

I know everyone on the internet has different opinions but isn't it possible they stuck by him in effort to give encouragement and support to change? Isn't supporting the future different from condoning the past?

 

I think so, but I'm not sure. If the evidence in the Complaint is true: that multiple people were willing to say they with Conor at all times during the events in question, and multiple people were willing to say they were with the accuser, and that they were never together--then yes I think I would have believed him.

I think using this case and others like it to legitimize defamation lawsuits against accusers is harmful overall (not saying that's what you're doing, but I think it does happen). I don't believe it should be an avenue at all in sexual assault cases unless there are major reforms about how someone can affordably defend themselves.

How do you feel about it?

 

Tbh an accuser recanting their story in the face of a lawsuit or admitting they lied under the threat of a lawsuit doesn't make me more prone to believing the accused, in this context of sexual assault anyway. Because it is so often used as a tool by those more powerful to intimidate women into silence. I'm speaking generally, not saying that I don't believe Connor. Just that a lawsuit doesn't make me more prone to believe him.

 

http://bfy.tw/F6uZ

Not too hard, and significantly faster than asking someone else to do it for you.

 

It depends. I can definitely work with that idea, I can understand where you are coming from, but once you see a pattern and that pattern doesn't change and just keeps going, I feel hard pressed to believe that Lacey hid his behavior from his peers since there are even reports of him doing similar stuff at parties going.

I can understand and empathize with his friends sticking with him FOR that. Can I empathize with the fact that lyrics in TDGARIM, Daisy and even science fiction show a pattern and a fucking sickening one at that about regardless how much he says that he felt guilty this was still being used as fuel to his lyrics then well, no. I can't empathize with that.

 

I am little confused by that last sentence. Are you saying the lyrics from the last three albums are showing a disregard for what he's done in the past?