Brand New - Science Fiction (August 17, 2017) [ARCHIVED] Album • Page 1654

lol, I love me some Annie Clarke. But she is violent!

St. Vincent Allegedly Destroyed Chilean Artist’s Paintings With “Knives And Violence”

Those poor paintings. Still love her though.

 

Lol at the people defending it. "It sounds like she consented".

SHE. WAS. 16. SHE. CANNOT. CONSENT.

 

i get the english people in there being confused since age of consent there is 16, but yeah, no one else should defend what he did, and neither should they once they found out what the law is.

 

If we look at the change in persona, personality, lyricism, tone, etc between Deja and Devil and God, I imagine something happened to him? He broke somehow? I remember a friend telling me he had a suicide attempt, but I don't think that was ever confirmed?

 

From a sociological standpoint it was interesting to see the people from the UK asking why this was important, with the age of consent there being 16.

Not condoning ANY behavior, just noting the societal differences.

 

the power boundaries to me are more important than the specific age aspect

 

Yeah there's someone in a FB group who has made it their mission to discredit Nicole.

And like I don't care what her motives were, anything about her life, she could be a legitimately terrible person I don't know I can't even follow all the stuff people are throwing around, whatever it's irrelevant. It's up to you to not fuck around with a minor. And if you didn't do anything, you would DENY being inappropriate with a minor. Jesse denied nothing. Fucking end of story.

 

Right, but you're stating that they're trying to excuse his behavior when none of those posters themselves said it. Trying to understand and making excuses are not the same thing.

 

I know it does not apply in this situation as Jesse's victims were even younger, but I keep seeing that the age of consent in the UK and other countries is 16. How does everyone else feel about this? Obviously it does not change the fact that many of these situations which have occurred, especially in the United States, have been illegal. But in the hypothetical situation that one of these situations, such as the Pierce the Veil one just posted, were to occur in a country with a lower age of consent, does that somehow make it more morally excusable?

I don't know if I'm presenting this correctly, but it definitely seems like a grey area at that point in my mind. It still fits the bill for abusive behavior which can't be tolerated, but to what extent does the situational and cultural legality of the actions effect the perceived wrongness? I don't really know where I stand, so it would be interesting to hear everyone else's thoughts.

 

I find that a more interesting/telling/systemic thread of this type of behavior as well.

 

a legal aspect of consent is unimportant to me imo. an older band member using their status to seduce and abuse younger fans? I don’t care what the law says, the intent is a problem.

 

I remember Broadchurch the UK TV series bringing this up a lot. The main family's daughter was 15, about to turn 16 dating someone older. In the show, they mentioned how her mom and dad got to know each other similarly. It also notes that the daughter had had sex with him. It seemed really foreign to me, but was just a normalcy in the show.

As mentioned previously, I think the issue can be traced more to the power dynamic, as opposed to specific age of consent. Would it have been better if someone in a band did this to someone who was 18 years old plus a day versus 17 years old, eighteen in a day? I think the evil aspects of power against prey still remain regardless of specifics of age.

 

I agree, for sure.

 

The age grabs attention but yes, you are right, the power dynamic is key.

 

yeah, he preyed on people that looked up to him, because he knew he could get what he wanted. the age of consent isn't really the problem as much as the fact that he went after young people because he knew they would be easier to manipulate.

 

Morals are fluid. We see this topic come up in foreign affairs with countries like Saudi Arabia and India. Legality in a country does not equate to morality. We get to prescribe our morals to the behavior regardless of where it happens.

 

Coming to the realization that burning my BN vinyl collection might be bad for the environment.

Is it unethical to sell my records on eBay at this point? If I make money off of a BN record am I somehow on shakey moral ground? Is the person who buys the record from me in effect normalizing Jesse’s actions? Am I at fault because I gave them an avenue to normalize such actions?

Yeah, I could just walk outside and toss em, but damn that’s just like throwing a couple hundred bucks away...

 

Sell them and donate the funds to a charity. Specifically one that benefits victims of sexual assault/abuse.

 

I'm selling mine and donating the money to RVA - Support Us

 

I definitely agree that the power dynamic is the biggest concern, the legality seems to have just added on to an already terrible situation. Thanks for the input.

 

Donate it to a women’s abuse foundation or something and that isn’t as bad.

Me I just threw them in a recycling bin

 

when it comes to abuse i really don't care what laws say, the laws are made to favor men anyways and we've seen even in obvious cases of abuse courts won't find the person guilty. plus it becomes a monetary drain and the abusers usually are more well off and can afford better lawyers and legal fees which puts the victim at an even worse situation.

 

Whether you donate or whatever, I know most BN vinyl is crazy limited, but if selling it to someone could somehow keep someone from going and buying something directly from the band that would probably be a good thing?

 

Just food for thought, but if she was 18 would the PTV situation be looked at differently? I think it’s gross because of how young she was, and it’s definitely sus and disturbing that he would carry on knowing her age... but what about if she HAD been older, and he was under the impression it was consensual, but she later regretted it and interpreted it to be an abuse of power?

Don’t take this the wrong way, I’m definitely behind the victim, but I’m curious as to where people feel the line is drawn. Is a band member consensually sleeping with a fan who later regrets it responsible for abusing their power? Of course assuming the fan is of legal age. Curious what people’s thoughts would be

Also taking this time to acknowledge the fact that I can’t nwme one Pierce The Veil song