Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, March 25th, 2016) Movie • Page 6

I don't want it to do poorly because I don't think I'm going to like it. Screw that nonsense. Hoping for the downfall of things you don't like is dumb.

I'm merely admitting that a part of me would like for the general reception of this massive event film, at least amongst my peers, and my personal reception to it to be similar enough that I don't get sucked into a million cyclical conversations about why I think it's a lot better or worse than what others think. I'm too active a superhero nerd to get away with avoiding the topic, and I get so much sass from people for things they like and I don't, even though those same people can't see their own sass for the opposite.

In short, having opinions literally none of my friends share is dang exhausting, lol.

 

@Tim I'm with you on all 3 points of Jurassic World, Twenty One Pilots and ASM2, if that counts for anything?!

 

Do you not find having the exact same opinion boring though?

Maybe I didn't really understand your post, but I've read enough of them here and AP.net to know there's about a zero percent chance you'll like this movie — I guess I just don't get why go see it? It'd be like me attending a Front Porch Step concert, nothing good comes of it and all it'll do is reinforce how I already feel. I guess that's what I've never understood — why give money and time to something all unconnected parties know you're gonna hate? Usually this is when someone says "but I don't know I'm gonna hate it, I really want to like it" — but to the outside, after months of watching, I can say with relative certainty that I know you're gonna hate it even if you haven't let yourself see that yet.

Maybe I'm weird, but at this point in time in my life if someone isn't hurting someone else — I kinda hope things workout for people even those making shit I don't like. Life is hard enough, making a living is hard enough, and there's so many jobs and lives at stake that I hope people are successful and make money at what they do even if I don't like the outcome. I just sense this level of pure hatred and vitriol surrounding this movie in particular that I find strange. Five years ago everyone destroyed me on AP.net for my dislike of Zack Snyder and what I called "bro-core" filmmaking, so, I am sort of enjoying being vindicated in that regard with this recent turn of events, but at the same time I've almost flipped on a few directors that are now so universally hated that I think they're underrated at what they do and have been able to create on screen.

I guess it's just for over 18 months I've watched the same people declare this will be awful, hope it'll be awful, explain how it'll be awful, trash every announcement or jump on every rumor to reinforce while it'll be awful, and this is the final lap of "see I told you so" that I knew was coming over a year ago.

 

Hah, yeah, I assumed you did. I don't think his stance really applies to you then. I don't think he's speaking to you, I think he's speaking of a very large group of people that have not admitted this fact and aren't arguing against it in multiple movies but instead are using it to beat one specific movie over the head.

First my preface: I don't like Man of Steel very much. I think it's ok, and not as bad as some think, but I always end up defending it because of how much it gets trashed on and I think there's parts of it (the action, for example) that are really amazing. But as a whole, I think it's a really mediocre film that is flawed in many ways. I think I end up defending it more because I see people heap praise on what I would consider also very flawed movies (Cap 1, Thor, Av 2, IM3), but, by and large, MoS is a movie I defend at this point because no one else does far more than I actually like the movie.

I've long argued that the Superman in MoS is basically in his first day on the job. I agree completely that Superman should be saving all those people but how he gets to the place where he is saving all those people or where that is his priority above all else I think is an interesting story. I think it being a part of who he is, and seeing before it's in him, is an angle we haven't seen before. In every other telling it seems so innate that we never question how, or why, we just chalk it up to small town living or something. I think, while flawed in execution, attempting to walk into that why or how is, at the very least, interesting. What is it that makes him the kind of person that does care about all these people dying later in his "career"? I've held (and maybe this doesn't hold after BvS) that these are the lessons he's learning in MoS. That without seeing what happens with his presence on the world he would have no baseline. That what we saw in MoS was showing us the destruction his presence on the world has for humanity and I'm interested in that story and how he reconciles it as a person and what that leads him to do.

But what you are seeing in Avengers are characters so much further into their career than Clark. They know what happens in these situations and what their own powers or lack of powers can or can't do. I think in A1 they do as bad a job of trying to protect civilians as Superman does, but I also think they have a better understanding of their own strength, numbers, and the impact on the world they have. I don't think Superman realizes this yet. I think that catalyst is a big part of this upcoming movie and how the world views him. I agree with you, there should have been more focused on the city and the destruction, but I always assumed that came after. And while I agree with you, I think that same criticism can be leveled at the writer with one of the most quoted lines in movie writing:

“Make it dark, make it grim, make it tough, but then, for the love of God, tell a joke.”

By none other than the revered Joss Whedon.

I agree that it's not wrong, but I think the overarching point is that there is, or has been, a double standard. That's something I agree with. I think both are wrong. Not that MoS should get a pass for it, but that other movies aren't held to the same criticism. I agree with the double standard being there, I don't think it gives the movie a pass, unless it's being ignored in other films while being used as a reason for why MoS fails. I think if that criticism is levied at one, it should apply to others as well.

 

I mostly agree with Jason's views on MoS. I think it was a really interesting story but it just wasn't executed well. Granted, it's been a while since I've seen it (probably gonna watch again tomorrow or Thursday and should probably be waiting to post this until then) but I remember feeling like the story and the idea and the vision was there and they just did t do a good job putting the pieces together.

 

I feel like I'm now the guy that ends up defending directors I really don't like (Michael Bay, Zack Snyder) because I think they do a few things really well, and at least distinctively, more than those I see get passes for being basically cardboard directors as long as they just get out of the way and throw a red Marvel logo at the start (I'll say I don't think The Island or The Rock is a worse directed movie than Captain America 2). I don't argue that these movies are great at all, I more argue the ones that are somehow critically/universally considered amazing aren't really on that level, and the ones that somehow get pegged as horrible aren't as horrible. It's the labels and tribalism that I end up arguing against. The inherent biases I see that play out over months.

The narratives "formed" and "confirmed" look, to someone reading the threads, as confirmation bias to me. That minds get made up years in advance and then argued so hard for before movies ever come out that it's a part of the identity to argue for or against a movie and it becomes so ingrained. You're this or that, you like this or that, you side with this or that, and it just becomes this constant battle.

I just wish all the movies were better. I wish they all at least filled me with the wonder that TFA did. But, I want to expect the best out of all of them walking in, and I assume or at least I try to assume, the best in the hundreds if not thousands of people involved in making them ... that they are trying to make something good. But at this point I already see the narratives playing out for Ghostbusters, for Wonder Woman, for Justice League, for The Flash, for Civil War ... and it all seems so laid out, so predictable, and we haven't even seen the movies yet. They're not even in our lives, but the arguments feel pre-written, pre-determined.

(And I'm still upset we didn't get Edgar Wright on Ant-Man and the movie just ended up being fun but forgettable but seems to never face any of the same scrutiny if it was another studio making it. And that's probably why I defend the not very good when no one else does, because it becomes such a piling on that I think leads a lot of unjustly maligned art.)

 

It's funny when people push for DC movies to be more fun and jokey, but you just know the instant they do that, they'll be "biting" marvel.

 

I think MoS was better shot than pretty much everything in the MCU but Snyder and Goyer need to go. Whoever thought they should lead a cinematic universe is beyond me

 

I also think there's more life in the cinematography of the trailers and TV spots for this than any of the MCU. it looks at a superficial level fantastic. But then after that big short I think a fully McKay led Ant Man would have been excellent, but he was just picking up the pieces.

 

Did you see it already Nick? More extensive thoughts?

 

Shit sorry. I mean to say in the trailers and TV spots. Was getting off a train and posting. Will edit.

 

We can rip on Snyder all we want, (I'm not the biggest fan of him), but his movies are drenched with style.

 

Down to 36 off 56 reviews. Disappointing. Then again I loved ASM 2 so...

 

I wouldn't want to have the same exact opinions, no. That would certainly be boring.

Being a total outlier isn't much better in my opinion, though. When that happens, I basically lose the ability to take about things I like to talk about without it being an argument. And, honestly, people are big enough douches to me because of a short window where I liked making fun of others' favorites I didn't like that, even though I'm more accepting of different tastes than my peers, I'm always the one written off for being an elitist snob. And this movie is big enough that I can't avoid those ridiculous conversations.

That's why PART of me would hope that this is poorly received, or at least mixed, even though, yes, I do generally hope the best for things and people I don't personally care for.

As for why I'm seeing it, I can't miss out on the aspects I know I'll like. I hated The Wolverine but don't regret seeing it for the bits of good mixed into the crap. Same with some other various examples. Here, it's finally seeing Wonder Woman and a Batman who looks like the comics. Best case scenario, I'll view it as an almost-great film like MoS or ASM2 and hope JL rights the ship. Worst case scenario, it'll be so bad that I don't watch JL, though Fox never reached that with X-Men, so we'll see.

 

I'm not as into film as alot of you seem to be, I just watch a movie if I think it's interesting, don't know anything about cinematography, etc. I'm glad to see people passionate about these things and knowledgeable about them.

Also in regards to Rotten Tomatoes/critics reviews, for me personally, I put very little weight into them because my mind is made up if I want to see something based on the trailer and whatnot not based on whether someone I don't know liked it or not.

 

My friends and I have a joke that we don't care about critics... unless they agree with us.

Too true.

 

HAHA, I don't really have friends, so it's typically just my wife and I. We generally have the same taste in movies for the most part but we have this same sentiment. Plus we are horror movie fans and critics typically don't respond well to most horror movies lol.

 

@Jason Tate Have there been any Zack Snyder movies that you have thought were really good or really enjoyed? I've come out of most all of them, at the least, being fairly entertained.

 

I still think Watchmen is really good, haven't seen 300 in years but I liked it at the time. MoS is alright but forgettable as I recall. That's all I've seen.

 

Haha coming out of the theater for 300, I just remember being incredibly impressed. I haven't re-watched it in a long time though, so not sure how well it holds up over time.

 

I liked Snyder's Dawn of the Dead, though I haven't seen it in years. I enjoyed 300. I thought Watchmen had it's moments even if it had problems. Man of Steel is similar, though overall I think I liked Watchmen more. Snyder's adaptation style is to stick super, super close and faithful to the source material, which can be solid (Dawn of the Dead, 300) or it can clash with his style (Watchmen). When he doesn't have source material to guide him, it can get rough (Suckerpunch, Man of Steel).

 

Oh yeah, I forgot Dawn of the Dead. I enjoyed that quite a bit, and critical consensus within the horror community is pretty good, I think. I need to give that a rewatch soon.

 

Haha well I loved Man of Steel, but I still really don't know what was going on with Suckerpunch, although visually I remember it being impressive.

 

Forgot he did that one as well.

 

Snyder is always visually impressive. Man of Steel has some of the best superhero action ever filmed. I still remember certain sequences, like Zod swinging an i-beam at Superman and Superman melting it with his heat vision as it came at him. The floor collapsing under Superman and catching him off guard, but he catches himself in mid-air. A lot of it is creative, well-choreographed action. I just wish there was any real emotional investment in any of it/it didn't lose itself in repetitive flying through buildings for too much of the ending.