Avengers: Infinity War (Joe & Anthony Russo, April 27, 2018) Movie • Page 90

Saw it again last night and still blown away by it

 

Look at all the nerds nerding it up in this thread.

 

While the Thanos motivation talk is still fresh (and before I wrap up the "Further Reading" post I'm late on and finish the Infinity War piece I said I was gonna write for Whatever A Spider Can...), I have some thoughts.

As much as I love the Infinity Gauntlet comic's take on Thanos and his motivations, I don't think that would've worked in this movie. And, I don't personally hate what they did. It works ok enough to carry me through this film. I'm able to rationalize to myself the holes with "oh, the gauntlet's power in this world has narratively convenient limits" and "oh, Thanos isn't rational enough to want to create an anarcho-communist universe instead of commit genocide." I wouldn't do that if I didn't like what I like about the movie as much as I do, and I don't pretend it adequately answers the criticisms, but it works as my personal head canon.

BUT, there is a different angle that I think would've worked better. I think they should've introduced a version of one of Marvel's big cosmic entities, like Eternity or the Living Tribunal. Or maybe even Death. Give Thanos some sort of tragic backstory, like the death of his family and/or home world, and show him plead with this cosmic deity for their lives. Then, when rejected, Thanos would begin a quest to wreck the universe in retaliation. Almost like the Judeo-Christian Satan, but with a relatable inciting incident.

This would better anchor Thanos' motivations in human emotions. It would actually tie into his (abusive) affection for Gamora. It would make more sense for the snap to be half of all life, which works better as a symbolic gesture than a pragmatic one. And, perhaps best of all, it would thematically tie back into Civil War's underappreciated thematic thrust. Avengers 4 could then feature a Thanos who still feels emotionally empty, and an arc of reconciliation between Steve and Tony that mirrors Thanos' own acceptance of his loss. Have Tony sacrifice himself for Steve (or vice versa, or both sacrifice themselves in a unified gesture). End with Thanos as a farmer somewhere, finally content.

Anyways. Yeah. That's what I would've done.

 

Yea man the biggest box office opening of all time is definitely just a little group of nerds

 

The problem with this is that the scene in Ragnarok was not played that dramatically. It doesn’t really have any real impact on him. Beyond his physical appearance being marred, there is no negative aspect to it. He can fight just as well as he did with 2 eyes. It’s apparently not consequential. He screams out in pain when it happens and... that’s it. Which I found problematic, but it was also how they played every other loss or painful event, minus Odin’s death, so it was consistent within that film to play it that way. I feel like the Odin death was the only event that wasn’t made into a joke.

So this didn’t pull the rug out from anything. Now he has an eye. For a short while he didn’t. Neither has made a difference beyond physical appearance.

 

It made him look like his father and was a nice symbol of the journey he'd been on. It's small, but I'd argue it was pretty important and shouldn't have been undone.

 

It was a nice thing for Rocket to do.

 

Which impacted or made a difference in Thor how?

The audience sees that. Sure, I thought of that when it happened. But it doesn’t really make a difference for the character, so it’s fun thought that I don’t really care about.

 

I think the way that Infinity War treated a few bits and pieces of Ragnarok is one of the few bits of the film that disappointed me.

 

After watching the massive Avengers: Infinity War [part one], are you intrigued by the comics that inspired this cinematic event? The comic book thread has put together some recommendations to help guide your journey. Check 'em out, and then jump into the comic book thread if you have questions (or want more comic recommendations of any kind). We love helping new readers navigate the weird and wonderful world of comics!

Avengers vs Thanos
Writer: Jim Starlin, various
Artist: various
Buy from InStockTrades or Amazon.
This is an over-sized collection, consisting of older issues from various series, including Avengers and Iron Man. The book has the first appearances, origins, and major storylines for Thanos, Gamora, and Drax. While my favorite part of this collection is Warlock and his stories, you should read this for the big battle between the Avengers and Thanos if you want to prepare yourself for the movie. This focuses more on the cosmic side. There’s Infinity Gauntlet, but this is a supplement and shows most of everything that happened before it. I love this collection, and I recommend it to everyone that asks for a new Marvel book to read or even just likes sci-fi. - @xapplexpiex

Infinity Gauntlet
Writer: Jim Starlin
Artist: George Pérez, Ron Lim
Buy from InStockTrades or Amazon.
Jim Starlin had his work cut out for him with the fantastic miniseries Infinity Gauntlet. George Pérez and Ron Lim are on art for the miniseries, and they do a great job considering just how many heroes and villains they have to draw throughout the six issues. This story brings the Marvel universe together in a way that not many comics have. Even though we don't see a lot of these characters in Avengers: Infinity War due to character rights being spread out, it's still worth the read. You'll get an in-depth look at what goes on with Thanos. He's in love, and it might be the one thing that makes him mortal. This is a cosmic event for the ages. Silver Surfer and Adam Warlock have big roles before they bring in the big guns. This is one you won't regret reading. - @Deanna

New Avengers: Everything Dies
Writer: Jonathan Hickman
Artist: Steve Epting
Buy from InStockTrades or Amazon.
"Everything dies." These are the first words of this demoralizing story, in which a secret society of Marvel greats like Black Panther, Iron Man, and Reed Richards struggle with how far they can go to save their world. As other realities' earths threaten to collide with theirs (for grand, unknown reasons), are they justified in using the Infinity Gauntlet to protect themselves? Are they justified in destroying an entire world? - @Tim

Infinity
Writer: Jonathan Hickman
Artist: various
Buy from InStockTrades or Amazon.
For many of you, Avengers: Infinity War is so exciting because it is the culmination of a decade’s worth of films, interweaving threads from 18 different films. It promises to be nothing short of epic. It is fitting, then, that the film borrows several elements from Infinity, a comic that was, in many ways, a culmination of Jonathan Hickman’s work writing for Marvel, as it ties together his work Avengers (collected in these three trades, or this oversized hardcover) and New Avengers (collected in the "Everything Dies" trade above), as well as elements of his Fantastic Four run. In Infinity, the Avengers fight a war on two fronts.

First, the Builders, seen first in Hickman’s inaugural Avengers arc, have an armada that is tearing its way through the galaxy on a path to earth. Captain America gathers a collection of heroes to travel off world to meet the armada in an epic space battle. Iron Man stays behind with a small group of heroes to act as a contingency plan in case Cap and his team should fail. Meanwhile, Thanos and his five generals, the Black Order, have been razing planets until they agree to his terms: hand over all of the children of a certain age so that Thanos may kill them. Thanos, you see, is trying to locate and kill a lost son. Thanos learns that earth is, essentially, undefended, and heads for the planet in search of his son.

It is, in a word, epic. There are massive space battles, incredible acts of heroism, and several concepts that make it into the film (like the Black Order). So if you are jazzed after Infinity War, the logical next is step is this comic. You won’t be sorry. - @scottlechowicz
(If you really want to commit to this awesome epic, consider forking over the cash for this omnibus, which collects all the above Avengers, New Avengers, and Infinity material by Hickman, and more into one massive hardcover volume!)

Thanos vol. 1: Thanos Returns & vol. 2: The God Quarry
Writer: Jeff Lemire
Artist: Mike Deodato, German Peralta
Buy vol. 1 from InStockTrades or Amazon.
Buy vol. 2 from InStockTrades or Amazon.
Jeff Lemire’s two volumes of his Thanos run gives us a Thanos that, while still as fierce as ever, has now been stricken with a terminal illness. Lemire does a very nice job giving us moments where we begin to feel for Thanos just before we remember how horrible and cruel a being he truly is. In addition to that, we are treated with a twisted family affair that provides its own fun twists and turns from one volume to the next. Now, if you’re expecting Avengers vs Thanos battles, you won’t find them here, but the Avengers do show up for a brief fun moment that I won’t spoil.

These two volumes are certainly not perfect. While the art is good in both volumes, I found the art in volume one to be more interesting and personally don’t enjoy when in the midst of the same storyline the art style changes. There are also some detours in character moments in volume two that feel unnecessary. However, despite some issues and not being among the stronger efforts by Lemire, these two volumes still provide an interesting look at who Thanos is to others, and to himself.

Lastly, I found both volumes very accessible for someone who had no prior knowledge of some of the worlds and characters within the story. If you're looking for an easy to jump into, solid, personal story about Thanos with great and brutal action, then dive in to Lemire’s fall and rise tale, of Thanos. - @BackyardHero11

 

edited it into the first post

 

Thanks!

I started Infinity, but quickly realized I should do New Avengers first and have been enjoying that.

 

Yeah, the first time I read Infinity was by itself, and I found it pretty rough, lol. The whole Hickman epic as one series is great, though. The grand finale, Secret Wars (w/ Esad Ribic on art) is my personal favorite big Avengers story.

 

I would like to clarify that the length of my write up was a purposeful and considered metatextual commentary on the nature of epics and not at all a product of my inability to follow directions and / or edit my thoughts.

The reader is supposed to be left pondering: “does length and scope = quality?”

 

this is pretty darn cool

https://kotaku.com/god-of-war-has-an-avengers-infinity-war-easter-egg-1825685299

 

I'm sorry but this somewhat cringe-worthy take at the end of your comment kind of discredits anything you say before and after. I also can't take you seriously when you try and defend your takes on the movie with "my film school friends make fun of me cause of the movies I do like." You do realize this movie was meant to be spectacle, right? This wasn't meant to be some Oscar worthy script/screenplay, nor should it be, and I'm sorry, but you shouldn't approach it as such. Comic's in general are just as messy. You have to suspend disbelief with these kind of movies.

Some thoughts on your "points" :

1. Asgard was wiped out on screen when they caused Ragnarok to happen at the end of Thor 3. Sure they saved some people, but ultimately, the ship being taken over provided weight to how Thor approaches the rest of the movie. He has nothing left to lose cause he lost everything already, so he's willing to do anything/everything to get revenge on Thanos, even if he dies doing so.

2. Peter wants to impress Tony (who has essentially become his surrogate father/moral compass), and he's still a kid. He saw a moment to help and be a part of something bigger, as evidenced by his line "I can't be the neighborhood spider-man, if there's no neighborhood." It doesn't wipe out anything prior from Homecoming. I think you're thinking about this point way too hard.

3. Just from your whole, wordy paragraph, I feel like you expected a 15 hour movie to please you. And to say there were only 3 characters that carried the emotional core of the movie, is just wrong. The whole Starlord having to come to terms with killing Gamora to prevent Thano's from getting all of the stones (people seem to forget that Peter Quill was essentially on his own, and in his own right, was an asshole at the beginning of GoTG, so I don't feel like what he attempted to do was completely out of character). Thor/Rocket connecting was another one. Those are just some of the examples at the top of my head.

4. Thano's truly believed that what he was doing was in the best interest of the universe. He needed the gauntlet/stones to fulfill this as quickly as possible, and that even includes the end result killing him. He was willing to do that. So him sacrificing his adopted daughter, wasn't way out of left field, and makes complete sense. He was told it had to be someone who he truly loves. He showed emotion at doing it. People also forget all of the things Loki had to do for him to really open up and allow him to fulfill his plan.

5. I feel like we learned a lot from the groupings. Rocket showed that he actually cares what Peter Quill has taught him about being a leader, when he approached Thor. Groot, in his adolescent state where it seemed he didn't give a shit, was able to find a moment to save the day, again, when he saw others around him struggling. Thor, showed how his loss has affected him.

At the end of the day, this movie is unprecedented in the amount of lead characters they threw into it. The fact that they pulled off the emotional connections/moments and character development the way they did (in 2.5 hours, mind you) with that kind of task, is incredible. It's totally okay not to enjoy the film, but to try and prove your point with 0 substance behind your critique, just doesn't open the floor to a real discussion.

 

‘Avengers: Infinity War’ and Marvel’s Endless Endgame

In the defense of such tactics, many to claim that we can’t really think of these movies as movies, but as a whole big season of television. The problem with that logic is that good seasons of television actually know how to move things forward and evolve along the way, they don’t just keep stacking characters and promising they’ll eventually tell you the real story later. These are definitely movies, just made with tenuous interlocking connections that often don’t matter to each one’s success. But I understand I cannot call this a “fault” within these films. It’s clearly working. The hardcore fans are eating it up and are right to do so because it’s all charming as hell.

And:

From there, the movie operates on a pretty simple dramatic methodology where, for the next two and a half hours, it repeatedly takes a character you like and puts them directly within the line of sight of that same danger. It’s like they lined up 50 kittens, pointed a gun at them, and shot a few more for good measure. But it all harkens back to the old writing philosophy of “kill your darlings,” right? This is how you create stakes and such! Well, it’s certainly effective. But it brings up the question of what the purpose of the story is beyond “the creation of tension upon an audience.” Because, in dramatic context, the purpose of “stakes” are actually far more complicated than the mere threat of looming death.

Because the truth is that within narrative, “death” is often cheap and easy. I mean, you’ve seen every other action movie. Murder is catharsis. Scores of bodies pile up and no one cares. Even dead family members are used as motivation so frequently there’s a tropey name for it called “fridge stuffing.” And even a lot of blockbuster movies will throw it around with recklessness that doesn’t seem to show much care or understanding for what “death” means in real life. I always think of that scene in Star Trek Into Darkness where Kahn murders Carol Marcus’s father right in front of her, literally crushing his head. It’s grisly! She screams! It’s horrific! The only problem is I literally know nothing about their father-daughter relationship at that moment, and then this murder 1) has no discernible effect on the characters and 2) is literally never referenced again. All these things are, essentially, tricks for “momentary affectation,” and it absolutely cheapens the notion of death itself.

Yep, all of this. This is what I've been slowly working through. Good piece.

 

protect Sebastian Stan at all costs

 

I’m seeing this again after an exam. I might see it again this weekend. It’s been a while since a blockbuster this good was released. I usually dislike going to cinemas multiple times in a week.

 

TLJ was released a few months ago, though

But yeah I can't wait to see this again. Hopefully this weekend.

 

INT. HOSPITAL - MORNING - THE NOT SO DISTANT FUTURE

A man lies on his death bed, holding hands with his adult son.

SON:
Are you happy with your life, Dad?

FATHER:
Yes....especially the hours I spent online writing about why the comic book movie was bad.

 

Black Panther was released like three months ago, Last Jedi's not even six months ago. A Quiet Place is still in theaters.

 

Need to see A Quiet Place still

 

I've spent a good part of my life reading, loving, and debating comic books, their stories, their movies, and being wrapped in those worlds. (Same with a lot of books, films, and other mediums.) They mean a lot to me. Why would I ever regret that part of my life? Fuck, if I had "fuck you money" or could retire I'd do that more. My dream is to retire and just read all the time and talk about those things with people.