Accountability in Music • Page 41

Tbf the people in here speaking out against Phoebe seem to be more directly connected to the victim/situation than any of us. I'd take their word that their anger/frustration is valid. No need to get contentious about it.

 

sorry but nah. Like every other band in this industry, like every other artist touring with shitty people, a google search is fucking free

 

and what if evan finished a good accountability process by the time the tour started? that was always up in the air imo. why cancel a tour before you know for sure that it is going to be a bad idea?

 

Sorry if I don’t understand why one retweet about a tour that got officially cancelled mere days after isn’t enough to write off a female artist that is doing good things in the music scene

 

In a few months? Wasn't gonna happen, and SHOULD NOT happen. Again, I think you just don't know enough about this situation to be playing the devil's advocate.

 

I understand the conflicted feelings and confusion people have re: Pinegrove. I really didn't know where to stand on the whole matter because we heard one side. I understand why people are hesitant to blame Phoebe Bridgers as well. At the same time, though, a conversation literally just took place with people who are explicitly saying they know more about the situation than we do. Why argue with them? The posts earlier today are pretty cut and dry.

 

i'm also speaking as someone who knows more details than most

 

Well, for one thing, I don’t know who those users are and what connections they have to the situation. It’s just hard for me to know what to do with that information when I don’t know what they know or how they know it.

 

also I'd love it if you didn't insinuate I'm targeting women. Pinegrove surrounded themselves with women, NB and progressive artists, it's how it is, and I'm myself NB and trans and not a man and not straight (though that doesn't really mean anything). I've been spending the past year hurling shit at men for their behaviour, I took direct real life action against moose blood playing my local venue, I've been using every bit of my meagre scene clout to call attention to this shit. Yes there are women acting shitty in this situation, yes they should be called out the same way men are being called out. When I like an artist I don't make up excuses for them.

 

well if you do and you're willing to even think about defending evan right now I don't know what you're doing in this thread.

 

i said that as a broad statement, i am definitely not targeting you here. i also don't think phoebe actively did something wrong. i don't what she did was problematic. she could have done MORE, but i don't think what she DID was bad

 

i am not defending evan one bit. don't insinuate that. i'm just saying, from phoebe's knowledge of the situation, what could have potentially happened

 

she was hanging out with chase igliori on her insta story the other day so I'm not really willing to reach to defend her. If she doesn't care enough to inform herself about the scene through a quick google search she's not worth the stretch. It's 2018.

 

Mind if I ask what you did about Moose Blood? I just noticed that their tour is coming through my town and I’m really annoyed that I didn’t see it sooner. I don’t know if there’s anything that can be done at this point.

 

Engaged with the venue months in advance since it was a student union, organised with students reps, jumped through the hoops they set out as they dragged on the process, got called a conspiracy theorist by their manager, compiled the list of testimonies they required from local businesses, local artists, students and scene members, only for the student exec to refuse even reading them, get a the union board to vote in our favour almost unanimously only to have it veto'ed by the exec.

Tried to organise picketing only to be stopped by snowstorm. Got angry and went alone to put up these posters in front of the venue, got confronted by the manager who called me a liar to my face and ripped off my poster in front of me. Still got a positive impact and discussions while postering, raised awareness and got people talking about this shit.

I'd say poster if you can. It disrupts them and pisses them off and makes them uncomfortable and feel unwelcome. Also it informs attendees who may not know. If you know enough like minded folks, gather together to protest.

 

I would just like to chime in and say it’s completely appropriate for women and non-men to be disappointed in their peers. When I said I was disappointed about Phoebe promoting the tour, I wasn’t “targeting” or “blaming” women over the abusers. I was simply disappointed that an artist I like and look up to, who has the same internet and runs in the same circles as me, was doing that. Similar to how I feel about Nandi now- she should absolutely know better.

And no offense, but I find it a little offensive to be policing people’s reactions to these things and then standing back and saying “well I know more than you.” Again, most of the pushback I’ve seen has been from non-men who feel disheartened by their peers continuing to support abusers which is...valid. We don’t need to argue about this forever, but please have a little empathy for people when talking about this stuff.

 

Hey. I'm not good at talking about the subject matter of this thread (im listening and learning though!) But I just wanted to say that I think this is awesome that you did all of this! Not that you need anyone to tell you this, but you're not a conspiracy theorist and you're not a liar. Even if you weren't able to stop them from playing, I think you opened a lot of eyes and started a lot of discussion.

 

A couple things I want to clarify before I go back to listening rather than speaking:

I don’t blame anyone who is disappointed, upset, or angry with Nandi. I’m disappointed myself. I never want to tell anyone, especially non-men, how to feel or react to situations like this. I just want to make sure — and let me be clear, I’m not saying anyone has done this yet — that we don’t condemn positive voices for not wanting to give up listening to or supporting Half Waif. That’s where I think nuance comes into play: unlike a straightforward instance of abuse, I really do believe that reactions to Nandi’s comments are an individual decision. I think someone can both express disappointment in her statement, be vocal about their disappointment, still support Nandi, and be a good ally. I understand that others may feel differently, and that is okay. The anger I expressed last night only stems from my fear that people I know are supporters and allies of abuse victims will be led to believe that they are no longer good allies for not immediately condemning Half Waif and anyone associated with Half Waif.

That’s all. I appreciate everyone willing to engage in this conversation. I apologize for my condescension and snark last night. It was uncalled for, and I will let other voices participate in this dialogue from this point forward.

 

I finally read the guy from Pinegrove's full statement and I could not be more baffled.

This is what the whole Pinegrove thing in this thread has been about?

 

he abused someone

that's all that matters

let's not have this discussion again

 

https://gabbysmitho.wordpress.com/2018/03/15/gabby_smith_o_statement/

gabby from eskimeaux commented on those allegations from years ago. basically saying a lot of the same things she told me before

 

"L interpreted my taking space for myself as a form of active abuse."

And therein lies my confusion. Is abuse defined by the one experiencing it, or is it not?

Because I wholeheartedly agree with the writer, and yet the opposite has been asserted endlessly in this thread.

 

Those demand texts from the eskimaux post are insane.

re: people who have experience with the accountability process, is just listing hyper-specific demands and conditions ever a good idea? Those texts read as manipulated and weaponized. I know the person who sent those texts did not have the purest intentions, but if this were a case in which abuse did take place, I'm wondering if that's ever a proper way to address the abuser.

 

People can support or not support phoebe if they want to. If you don't think she did anything wrong then keep doing what you do. It's fine if people aren't cool with her tweet and don't want to listen to her. I don't see why it matters either way.