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Accountability in Music • Page 195

Discussion in 'Music Forum' started by OhTheWater, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. teebs41

    Prestigious Prestigious

     
    beachdude likes this.
  2. Hmm, this seems a little reductive.

    I don't like pop-punk music very much anymore, but I would still offer and give my support to under represented groups within the genre. Unless I'm misinterpreting what "support" means.
     
  3. You know what's a really easy way to not have any online arguments or backlash or defense and rebuttals about a tour being all white dudes in 2019? Just, like, don't do that.
     
    Joe4th and incognitojones like this.
  4. Stand Atlantic and Eat Your Heart out are two very talented female fronted pop-punk bands.
     
  5. So I think they should get lots of great tours and I post about their news, and they have my "support," even if I don't really personally like the music. I don't think that's a bad thing.
     
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  6. teebs41

    Prestigious Prestigious

    maybe it's different because you run a music website that posts news about all music. Like, you're going to post about them bc you support their position within the community you represent.

    I think the tweet is more referring to like, putting an artist on your EOTY list just to have more women and not because you think their art is great, for an example.
     
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  7. I don't think I understand what the word "support" means in the context of that tweet then.
     
    Joe4th and OhTheWater like this.
  8. ComedownMachine

    Prestigious Prestigious

    I don’t really think this ever happens
     
  9. sophos34

    Prestigious Supporter

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  10. sophos34

    Prestigious Supporter

  11. What I take from the tweet is that people who use bands with marginalized groups to make themselves come across as "woke" is problematic.

    I think there's a lot more to booking a tour than the band headlining just saying "hey let's tour with a bunch of other white guys".
     
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  12. sophos34

    Prestigious Supporter

    With all the bullying that used to happen over lists that were “too white/male” etc. you really think no one included minorities on their lists just to look better? I’ll straight up admit it right now: I did that more than once because of the culture on ap
     
  13. personalmaps

    citrus & cinnamon Prestigious

    what i'm trying to figure out in all of this is why I, as a woman, would actually want to agree to be on a tour with only men, who have only toured/worked with men before. It's actually not enough just to ask- you're going to have to show the women in these bands that you care about them and about making an inclusive environment so that it's not just one woman, alone, on tour with all these dudes who are still treating it like a bro club.

    We're letting them off easy by pretending it's as simple as asking one band to be on your tour and then doing nothing differently.
     
  14. I think that's an interesting point, the idea of 'performative wokeness' in light of real support/allyship/etc. But the word "support" in the original tweet throws me off.

    I don't think anyone would say differently.
     
    supernovagirl likes this.
  15. God, the shit we used to get from a few people was brutal. Ugh. (And I was doing the opposite at the time, not admitting I liked a lot of pop because I thought it didn't fit into the 'brand.' Now I get mean tweets for that.)
     
  16. This is a very real thing that happens. I've definitely ended friendships with people who will preach inclusion and all of this traditionally "woke" stuff and then turn a blind eye to problematic artists like XXXTentacion. As someone who's admittedly not been super educated until recently it's really confusing.
     
  17. teebs41

    Prestigious Prestigious

    Did you see the tweet I posted from the band Mocklove? I don't know how much support they have to that claim but it seems like Pat has done more than just that... also mocklove wasn't the only artist/industry female to defend him. I see this as more of an industry issue than an individual one..
     
  18. The whole "don't just support non-white-men just because they're non-white-men because that's tokenism" is valid... but the problem is, it'll get used a hell of a lot to excuse a lack of effort from the folks who need to be making one.

    This isn't about one tour, and I'm not calling Movements or any of these other bands the devil for being part of this system. But supporting diversity means doing the work. It means researching, it means diverse A&R, it means broadening horizons, it means creating demonstrably safe environments - all of these things take system-wide effort across the industry and those mechanisms aren't there. So, people lash out at the parts of the system they can see, and that's usually the white male headliners. Is that fair? Maybe not. Is it the biggest injustice here? Hell no, so I'm probably not gonna lose sleep over it, because the anger and frustrations backing those lashing out are valid and the right way to change that is to change the culture, not call them the problem. They're a symptom at best, and moreover they're the ones being harmed.

    It's hard to address this stuff when valid statements like the one on top get used to justify maintaining the status quo, and that's why this is so frustrating.
     
  19. personalmaps

    citrus & cinnamon Prestigious

    I literally do not care about Pat or his band. I'm well aware that it's an industry wide issue, because I've been speaking about it for years and have personally had experience with it. My point was meant to be in the context of the entire industry, not the latest band of the week to disappoint me.
     
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  20. sophos34

    Prestigious Supporter

    That’s one of the best things that’s changed from Ap to chorus imo, I don’t think I really see anybody at all bashing anyone’s lists of favorites over the demographics. Since that’s not really where you’re gonna enact any sort of change, but it’s easier to say “your list is too white” than actually reckon with and overhaul the culture in music that causes white men to dominate lists
     
    Mary V likes this.
  21. teebs41

    Prestigious Prestigious

    ah okay, I see. you're not wrong, I agree with that.
     
  22. K0ta

    wrap yourself in petals for armor.

    This is so important. I went on tour in 2007, with 3 bands that continue to be huge in the scene, and I was the only girl on tour besides the lead singer of the band I was touring with. We were 2 of 30+ men. I was only 18 and did not understand how toxic the environment was entirely, but in hindsight there were a lot of things that happened that made me feel unsafe/marginalized within the tour community we were in. I was fortunate that my bandmates and the other band we became close with on tour treated us well, but even in those situations I think back to a lot of bro moments (men exposing themselves in front of me, etc) that were completely inappropriate. Bro culture was strong and real. I wanted to be "one of the guys." I didn't even realize how problematic a lot of things were at the time.

    As a young girl, I was lucky I had another girl on the tour who kind of shadowed me to watch out for me. Putting one or two or 10 girls on a tour doesn't help anything if they're then told to integrate into the bro culture so as not to upset the delicate balance of pop punk tour life.
     
  23. iCarly Rae Jepsen

    run away with me Platinum

    I know a lot of artists also find it reductive to be billed as a female musician , Neko Case for instance has spoken about it a lot and I think Hayley Williams and maybe Lauren Mayberry have too
     
  24. Connor

    we're all a bunch of weirdos on a quest to belong Prestigious

    Phoebe has spoken about boygenius being billed as a girl band before
     
  25. supernovagirl

    Poetic and noble land mermaid

    I know it was a page or two ago but those kitty tweets broke my heart. It’s just so upsetting to see a situation like that play out right in front of everyone else and see someone be clearly traumatized and re-traumatized by it. Add on top of it being someone that you already loved and respected so much, it’s like...ugh. I wish so badly there was something I could do.
     
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