2019-2020 NFL Season Thread [ARCHIVED] Football • Page 269

why should going to a Super Bowl 6 years ago affect how you are viewed in 2019?

thats the kind of thinking that gets teams into trouble. Elway has been dogshit the past 3-4 years

 

Look at his draft history. Outside of a few, he's whiffed hard more often than not. That roster was mostly set. Peyton is literally his biggest move. Without Peyton, that team doesn't have that success at all. The SB win year, sure, they probably win with any halfway decent QB.

What are his big moves outside of Von Miller/Peyton?

 

I've already said that the last few years have been bad, but writing off those first 5 as lucky or nothing to do with them is ignorant.

You don't build an all time offense and then deconstruct that and turn around and build an all time defense in a couple years by happenstance.

 

You're also ignoring the other side of it, let's say they miss out on Manning, i'm guessing a good portion of those guys either signed with Denver in FA/re-signed with the team just to play with Manning on a contending team.

He hasn't done anything outside of Manning and continually makes terrible decisions at QB

 

So now we're ignoring him drafting Von Miller? Why?

Off the top of my head, bringing in Ware was a crucial part of that Super Bowl win.

 

From Mile High to rock bottom, why John Elway is to blame for Broncos disaster

this article says it all

 

You're also off with your timing, that defense was all-time during the Manning years, not after

 

"He hasn't done anything outside of Manning other than build an all time defense that propelled the entire team to a Super Bowl win."

 

Where am ignoring that?

I literally listed Von Miller as one of his good moves lol

 

Go and look at the Broncos draft history since he took over. Its basically horrendous

Yeah he took Von Miller, real stretch there!

most of the rest of his picks are trash

 

I'm aware it was during Manning time, but that's when Manning fell off a cliff and that defense dragged him and Osweiler to a ring.

 

They more or less had the same defense in the 2 years after Manning's departure and were dreadful, if anything, that's signalling coaching over the GM

 

8 1 Bradley Chubb 5 DE 2018 0 0 1 8 16 12.0 North Carolina St.
2018 2 Courtland Sutton 40 WR 2018 0 0 1 5 16 1 -1 0 42 704 4 SMU
2018 3 Royce Freeman 71 RB 2018 0 0 1 3 14 130 521 5 14 72 0 Oregon
2018 3 Isaac Yiadom 99 CB 2018 0 0 0 1 13 1 Boston Col.
2018 4 Josey Jewell 106 ILB 2018 0 0 1 5 16 Iowa
2018 4 DaeSean Hamilton 113 WR 2018 0 0 0 2 14 30 243 2 Penn St.
2018 5 Troy Fumagalli 156 TE 0 0 0 Wisconsin
2018 6 Sam Jones 183 G 2018 0 0 0 0 5 Arizona St.
2018 6 Keishawn Bierria 217 ILB 2018 0 0 0 1 16 Washington
2018 7 David Williams 226 RB 0 0 0 Arkansas

2017 1 Garett Bolles 20 T 2018 0 0 2 14 32 Utah
2017 2 DeMarcus Walker 51 DE 2018 0 0 0 2 13 2.0 Florida St.
2017 3 Carlos Henderson 82 WR 0 0 0 Louisiana Tech
2017 3 Brendan Langley 101 CB 2018 0 0 0 1 16 Lamar
2017 5 Jake Butt 145 TE 2018 0 0 0 1 3 8 85 0 Michigan
2017 5 Isaiah McKenzie 172 WR 2018 0 0 0 2 19 11 70 2 22 208 0 Georgia
2017 6 De'Angelo Henderson 203 RB 2018 0 0 0 0 8 9 32 0 2 36 1 Coastal Carolina
2017 7 Chad Kelly 253 QB 2018 0 0 0 0 1 1 -1 0 Mississippi

2016 1 Paxton Lynch 26 QB 2017 0 0 0 2 5 79 128 792 4 4 16 55 0 Memphis
2016 2 Adam Gotsis 63 DT 2018 0 0 2 15 48 5.0 Georgia Tech
2016 3 Justin Simmons 98 S 2018 0 0 2 14 42 7 2.0 Boston Col.
2016 4 Devontae Booker 136 RB 2018 0 0 0 11 45 287 1094 6 99 815 1 Utah
2016 5 Connor McGovern 144 G 2018 0 0 1 9 31 Missouri
2016 6 Andy Janovich 176 FB 2018 0 0 0 2 43 12 50 2 17 191 1 Nebraska
2016 6 Will Parks 219 S 2018 0 0 0 6 48 3 Arizona
2016 7 Riley Dixon 228 P 2018 0 0 3 6 48 1 1 16 0 0 1 14 0 Syracuse

2015 1 Shane Ray 23 DE 2018 0 0 1 12 49 14.0 Missouri
2015 2 Ty Sambrailo 59 T 2018 0 0 0 8 44 0 0 0 Colorado St.
2015 3 Jeff Heuerman 92 TE 2018 0 0 1 4 37 49 564 4 Ohio St.
2015 4 Max Garcia 133 C 2018 0 0 2 16 56 Florida
2015 5 Lorenzo Doss 164 CB 2018 0 0 0 0 16 Tulane
2015 6 Darius Kilgo 203 NT 2018 0 0 0 3 29 Maryland
2015 7 Trevor Siemian 250 QB 2017 0 0 2 13 26 495 835 5686 30 24 60 183 1 Northwestern
2015 7 Taurean Nixon 251 DB 2016 0 0 0 0 2 Tulane
2015 7 Josh Furman 252 DB 0 0 0 Oklahoma St.

2014 1 Bradley Roby 31 DB 2018 0 0 1 16 79 7 3.0 Ohio St.
2014 2 Cody Latimer 56 WR 2018 0 0 0 4 51 2 1 0 46 635 4 Indiana
2014 3 Michael Schofield 95 OL 2018 0 0 3 23 60 Michigan
2014 5 Lamin Barrow 156 LB 2015 0 0 0 2 32 LSU
2014 6 Matt Paradis 207 OL 2018 0 0 4 21 57 Boise St.
2014 7 Corey Nelson 242 LB 2018 0 0 0 6 54 1.0 Oklahoma

2013 1 Sylvester Williams 28 DT 2018 0 0 4 29 89 5.5 North Carolina
2013 2 Montee Ball 58 RB 2014 0 0 0 8 21 175 731 5 29 207 0 Wisconsin
2013 3 Kayvon Webster 90 DB 2018 0 0 1 9 67 2 South Florida
2013 5 Quanterus Smith 146 DE 2014 0 0 0 1 15 Western Kentucky
2013 5 Tavarres King 161 WR 2017 0 0 0 2 17 2 3 0 22 303 3 Georgia
2013 6 Vinston Painter 173 G 2017 0 0 0 0 14 Virginia Tech
2013 7 Zac Dysert 234 QB 2014 0 0 0 0 0 Miami (OH)

2012 2 Derek Wolfe 36 DT 2018 0 0 7 42 96 1 26.0 Cincinnati
2012 2 Brock Osweiler 57 QB 2018 0 0 1 14 49 697 1165 7418 37 31 92 266 4 1 -14 0 Arizona St.
2012 3 Ronnie Hillman 67 RB 2016 0 0 1 17 56 494 1976 12 74 524 1 San Diego St.
2012 4 Omar Bolden 101 DB 2015 0 0 0 5 56 Arizona St.
2012 4 Philip Blake 108 OL 2012 0 0 0 0 Baylor
2012 5 Malik Jackson 137 DT 2018 0 1 3 39 110 32.5 Tennessee
2012 6 Danny Trevathan 188 LB 2018 0 0 5 38 87 8 8.0 Kentucky

2011 1 Von Miller 2 LB 2018 3 7 8 91 120 2 98.0 Texas A&M
2011 2 Rahim Moore 45 DB 2015 0 0 3 20 64 9 1.0 UCLA
2011 2 Orlando Franklin 46 T 2017 0 0 6 40 90 Miami (FL)
2011 3 Nate Irving 67 LB 2015 0 0 1 9 62 3.0 North Carolina St.
2011 4 Quinton Carter 108 DB 2014 0 0 1 5 30 2.0 Oklahoma
2011 4 Julius Thomas 129 TE 2017 0 2 4 21 71 226 2406 36 Portland St.
2011 6 Mike Mohamed 189 LB 2015 0 0 0 4 26 1 California
2011 7 Virgil Green 204 TE 2018 0 0 4 7 116 2 3 0 90 1017 5 Nevada
2011 7 Jeremy Beal

 

I’m on team Elway isn’t a very good talent evaluator, but this is a much stronger argument for how good of a move getting Peyton to sign was than it is a knock on Elway as a GM

 

That's fair

 

2018 draft looks like it could be pretty good
2017 was terrible
2016 was terrible
2015 was terrible
2014 was decent
2013 was terrible
2012 was pretty good
2011 was good because of Von Miller who was the surefire pick at the time

 

Only 4 or 5 teams in NFL history has been able to keep dynasty level success for more than 5-10 years at a time, so Elway being one of the GMs who wasn't able to do it isn't some indication that he's shit or just lucky to be there while apparently anyone else but him is making good decisions that directly led to success for 5 years straight.

 

I'm also biased because I have a personal vendetta against Elway because everyone in Denver views him as a god but he actively lobbies time and time again to make Colorado a worse place

 

Like, other than the teams below, I'm positive you could look at every other GMs drafts and find season after season of average to bad drafts.

70s Cowboys/Steelers
80s 49ers
90s Cowboys/49ers
00s Patriots/Colts
10s Patriots

 

He wasn't able to do it, but hasn't actively done anything to put anything in the right direction at all. That's being a bad GM. Like, the drop off after that SB should not have been that drastic. He's actively made that team worse than it should've been with bad decisions, from roster decisions, drafting, and coaching changes.

 

Also, John Elway is a dick

 

To be clear, I don't think he's a god either. I wouldn't even say that he's anything more than average at this point.

I just hate when people write off people for what feels like either personal reasons that aren't relevant or just clinging onto and repeating meme/ESPN level hot takes.

 

So because other GMs are bad that makes Elway not bad?

 

No, I specifically said that achieving more success than what Elway has at this point is near unprecedented anyways, so acting like what he did wasn't special or well done is an extremely high bar that practically nobody has reached.

 

That is also fair, my personal reasons aside though, he is a bad GM who imo lucked into the position he was in to get Miller and Manning and has shown over and over he makes very bad decisions to the detriment of the team