‘Nondescript Pop Punk Band Dropkicks a Girl Off Stage’ • Page 8

2nd thought would be, "AHHHH!! I HOPE MY INSURANCE COVERS THIS! I HAVE SUCH A HIGH DEDUCTIBLE!!!!"

 

There's a difference between seeking out shows like that and not.

If you go to a show and you're flailing around, jumping off the stage and into people, hitting other people, etc. then you're going to find violence and other nonsense at that show. But I guess if you're looking for it, then yeah, I guess it wouldn't be a problem since you're seeking it out.

But this girl (and the guy he previously did this to) were not seeking it out. They were fans seeking to capture a memory at a show they were probably very excited to be at. They weren't in a mosh pit, they weren't flailing into others. They were unsuspecting fans getting blindsided and put into serious danger by a person on stage (who they probably admire). These fans were not trying to start violence or engage in it, they were doing the harmless act of taking a selfie on stage and the actions taken against them were inexcusable.

It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of perspective. If you can't see how the situation you outline in your example and the situation of what Parker has done to his fans then idk how to help you. The two are very different and as such comparing them is pointless and doing nothing.

 

Dude probably doesn't pay for his own insurance.

 

You're younger than me and the internet is widely considered "birthed" around 1983, we could also make a case for 1990 as well. So, probably zero people.

I'm not really sure I understand what you're getting at though or its relevancy? How does the existence of the internet correlate with what happened?

 

So what's the value of the people who came to see the show, paid the same amount of money for a ticket, and can't see shit because this girl decided she wants a "memory" to share with all of her friends on Facebook?

There are two sides to every coin. You can look at one all you want to justify your stance.

When all else fails, make unsubstantiated attacks on someone's personal credibility. Internet trolling 101, right?

 

Mosh pits are dumb. Stage diving is dumb. You shouldn't want to get your jaw broken by anyone, and you shouldn't go to shows with the mindset of possibly getting beat up because some dude is wayyy into the music and can't help it. Why is this so widely accepted as part of the culture?

 

I'm sorry. You weren't trolling?

 

If you consider a 5'4" person (average, pls don't nitpick this height) standing on stage for 30 seconds during a 90-120 minute show to be a serious impediment to your enjoyment of said show or to be a serious obstruction to your viewing pleasure then you are just being cynical.

 

Come on, you and I both know that the other side of that coin isn't kicking someone in the back. If you'd like to discuss that you think one action is wrong — being on stage — that's fine. But please don't use that to justify violence or make it seem like both "opinions" are equally valid.

 

There's discussion and then there's being intellectually dishonest. I'm ok with one — the other I am not.

 

Always pick "kicking someone in the back" when doing a coin toss. It's the heavier side of the coin.

I usually choose to defer and start on defense, cause I like getting the ball in the second half.

 

I apologize for using too broad of a term. Instead of "internet" I should have used the term "social media."

I don't know how many shows I've been too over the years where something similar has happened. Boys, girls, and everywhere in between. It was just part of "punk rock" until everyone became a photo journalist. Now everyone has an opinion and a stance, regardless of the situation.

I can't help but wonder what would have happened to hellfest circa 2000 in today's social climate.

Either way, it doesn't really matter I guess. Felt like joining a "discussion," but this is obviously taking an overly personal tone for something that doesn't really effect me in any way, shape, or form.

 

Really shitty thing to do...would be even worse to not see him respond to the incident.

 

Nahhhh b. This is the exact mindset that makes me say that shit like stagediving should be gone altogether. Just because that shit happened in the past doesn't make it right. Isn't it a good thing that people are getting called out now? Why would you want that to continue?

 

That's not very pop-punk.

 

can we please, please, please stop pretending "it's punk" = "you can do whatever you like." it's like the shittiest misdirection not to mention very arguably not punk

 

lmao not calling you out i just posted like right after you did

 

Beimg a nice person is the punkest thing of all.

 

Again, I ask, what relevancy does it have? Is the argument you're making that because there wasn't social media for people to discuss or share certain things therefore they weren't important? It seems that the argument you're making is that things were better in 2000 because of a lack of social media. That a girl being kicked from behind in 2000 would be considered okay because it wasn't documented? This adherence to the past has never resonated with me unless there's a good reason. The past is the past, we don't owe the punk rock mentality of a decade ago anything. The racism, sexism, and blatant homophobia of the early aughts was also part of many cultures — it's good to let go of the past. Having access to photos, video, and the spreading of digital media has absolutely changed things. I think there's a strong case to be made for the better (and I think it's easy to find plenty of examples, especially recently, of how it's literally saved lives or protected people).

But this situation's stance is pretty simple: Don't kick people. Is that something that really needs to be a stance? Like that's something worthy of coming out against? This is one of those scenarios where I am actually unable to even grasp how someone could argue anything besides "oh, yeah, that's fucking horrible, don't kick people" with a straight face. Let alone use vestiges of the past as justification. This isn't even about the nuance of stage diving, or moshing, or anything like that — it's about just ... don't kick people in the back off a stage ... a belief I feel should be self-evident to anyone over the age of three.

 

I'm one of the foolhardy guys who still loves seeing stage dives and what not still.

Doesn't really correlate with band members physically assaulting fans though.

 

And that is obviously a fundamental difference between the way you and I see things.

From my perspective, punk and hardcore were always some of the least sexist/racist places because EVERYONE was equal. If you were in the mosh pit, you were in the mosh pit. It didn't matter what gender or race you were. If you were stage diving, you were stage diving, that's all there was too it.

I personally don't want to go see bands play and everyone is just standing around because they don't want to offend or hurt anyone. I don't want to go to shows and have to struggle to see the band because there are so many people that want a "live selfie." It's just not what I enjoy.

It's a simple as that. There is never a right or wrong answer, only an opinion. You have yours and I have mine.

We could go back and forth about this for hours and won't get anywhere, that's just the nature of it. Especially in the construct of a forum.

It's obvious to me though that there isn't much room for dissenting opinions here, so I'll be on my way.

 

I wonder how/if they're gonna go about responding to this. I'm meant to be seeing them at Slam Dunk next month and it'll be interesting to see if they still actually play. Could be a hostile environment.

What would people like to see happen from the TSSF camp?

 

Defend Pop-Punk (Women): The Perpetuating Culture of Hate

It's ironic to think about: punk music was created out of counter-culture, and pop-punk was a more accessible, easily digestible form of it. If the place that you went to escape from whatever mundane crap ails you day-to-day, and if that place is unwelcoming to you, where are you supposed to go?

While there appears to be no sexualized aspect to Cannon's beastly act of kicking a female fan off stage, it's cause for real concern. This is a crime, an act of violence against women. By kicking her while her back was turned, and by showing others it's okay to behave in a similar fashion, Cannon taught an audience that the safety of others doesn't hold any real value. As far as the pop-punk/emo world he inhabits, he's set back progress at a time where progress is crucial.

It's a music world that becomes increasingly hard to defend, and he's managed to make it exponentially worse. If there is a lesson here, it's to boycott bands that live life unconcerned by the well-being of others, and to listen to women when they share similar stories—and they will, if given the platform.

 

People need to learn that different opinions =/= equal opinions.

 

Yes, punk was a place for equality so we should kick the shit out of everyone, equally