Sexism/Feminism/Womanism Discussion Thread Social • Page 5

Reading the ruling now, I guess the claim was never made that it happened in NY. And it's a civil claim.

Fucking disgusting.

 

really upsetting

 

I would say "I can't believe this," but unfortunately, I can. This is so sickening and downright unfair. Kesha deserves better than this and Luke needs to be held responsible.

 

I believe her case in Los Angeles is still active, at least? Although honestly, I'm not sure what's really going on since I've read a couple of different things on that score. But that judge's comments are almost worse than the actual throwing out of the case.

 

Queer women are shaping Chicago's Black Lives Matter movement | Feature | Chicago Reader

 

I haven't been following this situation very closely and I'll see if I can find it again but I read somewhere today that her contract had a clause stating that the label/Dr. Luke/whoever could choose the location of legal hearings, so they chose New York instead of California but once they got there, they argued to have the case dismissed on the grounds that the events happened in California and thus didn't break New York law. I'm not a lawyer but that's fucking baffling.

Edit: Just saw that Jason touched on it above but here's where I read it: The Legal Facts About Kesha's Loss

 

Considering the total lack of evidence in this case, the question should be asked. What if Dr. Luke is the one telling the truth?

 

I think it's fair to say that question IS what's mostly being asked and considered, at least in the legal world. But why would she lie, ESPECIALLY given the toll it has taken on her career?

 

It's still surprising how many people say she's lying. It's doubly sad for Kesha and the girls that see what she's going through and think that if our judicial system won't help her then there's no way they would help your average victim.

 

Well frankly, to get out from under an unfavorable contract where she had to relinquish all creative control to an asshole.
It's a very dangerous topic to even discuss, you don't want to ever silence legitimate claims of violence, but when the only evidence presented seems to corroborate his story, then you have to at least consider the idea of his innocence. Her career isn't the only one ruined at this point, and it's safe to say that if and when her career resumes, she stands to recover career-wise much better than he ever will.
Again, this in no way endorses gendered violence, if this really did happen, then I sincerely hope it's revealed and she recovers as a person.

 

is his career ruined though?

 

He's not barred from making music, label fully behind him, Internet largely thinks Kesha is a liar for no reasons, he's got cases of this before no one cares about, yeah I think he's doing fine and being told that he can do whatever and he'll be fine.

 

No, you don't have to consider anything, except how to support the survivor in question. Further, given the way abusive dynamics manifest, one will find that the survivors of assault often remain silent or are coerced into protecting the perpetrators through emotional and financial manipulation. Lastly, you cannot know her career will bounce back. More often than not, the survivors are punished for drawing attention to the actions of the perpetrator and he, since they're usually male, go on as if this was just a bad thing in their past. Just look through the history of pop culture and one can find innumerable monsters who remained in the industry and even still have their defenders. See: Roman Polanski

 

I was unaware of any previous allegations of abuse, can you link me to these?
And I usually avoid the shadier corners of the Internet, but I've seen nothing but overwhelming support for Kesha, both from fans and fellow artists.

 

Simple question. What if he's innocent?

 

That question is beside the point. My sole obligation is to support the woman in question and to speak about how women are often used and destroyed in this industry. That's it. Even if he is innocent, which, again, isn't the point, that is still the best thing to do.

 

I feel like this mentality is inherently dangerous. It's unreasonable to not consider both sides of a story and I'm constantly confused as to how willing people are to call Dr. Luke's past into question but not do the same for Kesha. The ability of the human mind to consider more than one aspect of a story is very important and to not at least entertain the prospect of her lying is irresponsible. There was also a 2011 deposition in which she said she was never drugged or assaulted by Dr. Luke. Whether she was coerced into this or not, she had to know it would be insanely damaging to her case should she pursue it.

 

Kesha's past? I may not be aware of her past, but what are you referring to here?

 

None of this will affect Dr. Luke in any way so I can't think of a way that supporting the survivor is an 'inherently dangerous mentality'.

 

I in no way, shape or form said supporting the survivor is an inherently dangerous mentality. The danger is not considering any other options besides what you believe. Our society is already plagued with rampant misinformation and people who get their news through memes. I think it's important to keep an open mind and accept information with the least amount of bias as possible in order to form an informed and reasonable opinion. And there have been rumors of Sony not working with Luke's label or possibly cutting ties in the future, so it's perfectly possibly that he might be affected by these legal proceedings.

 

Your obligation should be to support the truth, regardless of which side is speaking it. And drawing some false equivalency between this case and other unrelated instances of sexual abuse is intellectually dishonest. There is simply no evidence to support the claims. If you want to argue that women are manipulated and used in the entertainment industry as a whole, you'll find no objection here. But in this particular case, the evidence just isn't there.

 

I mean her 2011 deposition in which she stated she was never drugged or assaulted by Dr. Luke.

 

Sure, but these incidences don't occur in a vacuum. My decision to support Kesha this way is painted by how laughably low the percentage of rape accusations are falsified. It is painted by how the police and public treat women who come forward like she did. It's painted by how she had literally nothing to gain by coming forward.

And c'mon, he'll still work in the industry, he'll still hold a position of power, people will still work with him. If accusations like these are supposed to destroy your career someone should let R. Kelly or Woody Allen or Roman Polanski know.

 

there's many reasons she would have denied it

Why Kesha's Viral Deposition Video Shouldn't Discredit Her Claims Against Dr. Luke

 

The issue with this, besides the fact that the sources are TeenVogue and TMZ, are that those claims weren't made in the deposition, they were made in the subsequent lawsuit. I don't know if these events happened or not, and unfortunately I don't know if anyone will ever know the whole truth. But in pursuing a high profile litigious matter like this it isn't unreasonable to assume that she had to know she would face difficulties proving her case after stating that these things never happened. I find it abhorrent that so many women are scared to come forward about abuse, and I can't imagine in any capacity that it's an easy thing to do. I've also never experienced abuse, so take that for what it's worth.