Unpopular Entertainment Opinions • Page 395

I think you can reasonably distinguish between favorites and quality. I know when I'm watching The New World that I'm watching a tremendous piece of art. I also know that if I'm picking something to throw on and make myself smile, I'm picking Clue over it. The problem is when you try to act like those more "objective" assessments of quality are universal and not unique to yourself in some degree.

That's not the same as a guilty pleasure either. I actively think Clue is a great movie , even if I think there are others that artistically exceed it.

For me, a guilty pleasure is a much narrower window. A movie you think is poorly made or artistically weak that you enjoy regardless. I really enjoy watching Rock of Ages. But I'm not going to fool myself that my enjoyment means it's a work of quality or artistic merit. But that has to be MY assessment, not anyone else's. Bullet Train is not a guilty pleasure for me just because I like it and others think it's bad. I don't think it's bad. The Pacifier is bad IN MY OWN ESTIMATION and I chuckle at it regardless.

 

No one is going to spend their entire lives reading classic literature and listening to symphonies and watching 4 hour Hungarian art films. It is perfectly acceptable to engage with brainless stuff; I watch a lot of the dumbest stuff on TikTok. The importance is in not letting that be the primary things you consume to the detriment of everything else. When people never stimulate their mind you end up with President Donald Trump.

 

Hm, maybe my disagreement is mostly semantic, since I basically agree with this post. And you did put scare quotes on “should,” lol.

But, this is why I think the language of “guilty pleasures” is largely dumb. (Which I know is also a semantic thing.) If you have a well rounded life (to the degree that your present life situation allows), and reasonable critical thinking skills, then nonsense is good and healthy. Life is capable of holding both Judith Butler and Nickelback. “Let people enjoy things” is often used to excuse a lack of curiosity and imagination, lol, but there’s a moderated version of it that’s 100% Good and True.

 

How does the let people enjoy themselves crowd feel about the population sippin on bleach every night watching libsoftictoc and Tucker Carlson? Like that's cool now my country sucks.

 

I feel like that's a fallacy of an argument. There's a very clear difference between "let people enjoy things" in the artistic or commercial sense and "let people enjoy things" when it's something actively causing harm to themselves and others.

 

Oh come on, lol. The initial post in this stretch had a caveat for Nazi propaganda, and I said “a moderated version” after talking about balance, etc.

There’s nuanced talk to have about what level of Star Wars fandom relative to other media consumption is healthy, but when you start collapsing right wing bullshit into the mix… you’ve lost the thread imo!

 

I was pushing well past the boundaries of guilty pleasure but there is room for discussion about problematic media that's past empty calories but not yet full on Nazi poison.
Though we probably didn't need to have it again here since we already have the accountability thread

 

It isn't as simple as "bad art = Nazi", but MAGA and fascists are not really intellectually curious people. They have generally traveled less than most people, know and interact with less people outside of their racial background, and they probably aren't engaging with challenging media. We all agree that it is good to exercise your physical muscles, but your brain needs it too. It doesn't have to be art films; playing an instrument or building model railroads or reading about history or playing chess or whatever else that requires you to think and engage.

Regarding Star Wars, who do you think were the ones that got mad about Black and Asian characters? It wasn't the people who watch foreign films in addition to Star Wars, it was people who almost entirely engage with "low culture".

 

I agree with that but I think it needs to more targeted than puzzles, you need to activate parts of the brain that require empathy and compassion. Being curious will help with both but learning the major scale isnt going to change you the way listening to stories of people you don't identify with will.

 

I could have caveated my point with plenty of blatantly anti-art shit but the easiest to understand example was propaganda. And I guess I didn't have stupid ass right wing or right wing adjacent podcasts in mind since I was thinking of "guilty pleasures" in the form of ya know art - such as music, movies, tv shows, books, etc - not those ghouls.

Also ya let's remove "objectively" from describing opinions on art. Whenever someone says "Objectively this is bad or great" it makes me think of like a Ben Shaprio level understanding of the world.

 

I think the “curious” angle is the best one to focus on in these kinda conversations. All sorts of people can and do like all sorts of things. But, are you settled, internally lazy, etc., at worst full-on reactionary, or do you just happen to enjoy dumb shit while also being open, engaged, etc., in whatever ways in your life?

 

I think this is forgetting how much of the MAGA crowd isn’t poor white people

 

I think there are a lot of maga pilled people that are fundemenatlly curious, it just leads them down the qanon and conspiracy rabbit holes.

 

I don't think anything that's been said thus far has conflicted with this fact, though? Unless I missed something.

Apparently I'm incapable of not getting into semantics, lol, but I'd argue anyone who lands squarely in QAnon territory isn't really curious. (Or perhaps almost was, but had that curiosity twisted and squashed by conspiracy?)

Like, speaking from experience, curiosity + ignorance can easily lead you into considering right wing & conspiratorial concepts. But, if you remain curious and critical enough, finding enough other perspectives (which is why people are into censorship initiatives like KOSA), then you're gonna have a better shot at escaping the claws of bullshit propaganda.

 

I was referencing Tetra’s post describing MAGA folks

 

Yes I don't know if there a term for the type of for contained curiosity, from what I've seen I do think they are earnestly searching for truth but aren't willing to look outside their worldview. Having that type of curiosity will let you master an instrument, language or really any technical discipline
I think we all have views that were unwilling to challenge, I usually like to push back on essentialist ideas that people with different beliefs to me are fundamentally different, they are most likely just products of their environment same as me.

 

A lot of MAGA people are "intellectually curious" in that they are looking for answers, but they are really just looking for answers that will affirm their biases. When you look at the crisis of young men becoming radicalized, it is easier to buy into the rhetoric that says nothing is your fault versus learning humility and empathy.

 

Yeah, guilty pleasures are good to have but shouldn't be called that anymore. I agree.

Everyone should watch Tokyo Drift at least once.

 

I don't feel guilt anymore but I do like to shame!

 

Conspiracy theories are the illusion of curiosity, except they always get them all from the same sources. It's empty calories.

 

They definitely put the cart before the horse but I don't think that isn't real curiosity. I had an adult autistic friend who loved the Wiggles, he had an unquenchable thirst for Wiggles knowledge and belief that they were the best band ever, this lead him to study music and production and became very skilled without ever challenging those beliefs.
The difference between pseudo-archaeology and real archaeology is that the real ones start from evidence and the pseudos start with the conclusions but that difference isn't there for the people who are just into alt history. I'm into to history but I don't look at primary sources I just read the author's I like which is the same process same as them.

I think they are expressing their curiosity within their world view which was shaped by their culture, media diet, experience etc,

I would never accuse religious people of not being curious, there are plenty that love science and learning but will do it within its framework. There are dorks that will learn ancient Greek so they can study the Bible more.

 

Conspiracy theories were more fun when they had no real world consequences like aliens or bigfoot. Now they lead to fasiscts hunting FEMA

 

The thing about conspiracy theories is that the federal government is engaged in highly immoral and destructive things every day with almost no effort to hide it, but conspiracy theorists instead have to make up cartoon villain stuff.

 

I remember years ago when you would see Alex Jones stuff scribbled on a bathroom wall or something and it would be a laugh. Dale Gribble level stuff, basically. My senior year Civics teacher would go on and on about the Kennedy assassination for days. It was all so much more endearing.

 

Learning an ancient language to better understand the central text of a major world religion is not the same thing as fucking antivax and QAnon, lol, come on. If anything, they’re opposites: I’ve known plenty of conservative evangelicals who learn some Hebrew and/or Greek, but generally speaking, digging that deeply and seriously increases your odds of landing on nuanced takes.

Also, fixating on a piece of pop culture isn’t the same as conspiracy shit either. Your Wiggles example is a pretty clear example of taking a silly starting point and expanding beyond that. I listen to an X-Men podcast that’ll have hours-long episodes on tertiary characters, but they’ll have guests with doctorates and the like and touch on a wide range of deeper subjects (and other times just have a silly time with fun, dumb shit).

Conspiracy mindset will be briefly, singularly curious, but it’s in an attempt to have a settled, simple outlook and move past the need to explore nuance or wrestle with uncertainty.