American Football - American Football (October 21, 2016) Album • Page 35

IIOI is cool, it's true he doesn't stray particularly far from what he likes, but I think that's fine and it kind of reminds me of Death Cab in that regard. I like hearing the refinement in how he does things over time, while also seeing how his core style sounds when he meshes it with other things. Standards was great, and I love the noise pop undertones to Intersections.

 

Into It Over It is great shit, but he's pretty obviously influenced by Mike Kinsella, and vice versa. I have no problem with this.

Even from their latest albums, "Settled Down" by Owen sounds like Into It Over It, and "Old Lace and Ivory" by IIOI sounds exactly like Owen

 

this - jesus

also, saying you don't like AF is one thing, but calling a legendary album that almost single-handedly started a genre or at least sub-genre or whatevs, a pretty bad album is just trying too hard to be controversial LOL

 

I just don't like this style of emo.

 

Or, and maybe this is a wild thought, but maybe I just genuinely don't like the album? It's just not my thing. Not a big deal. What genre did AF start?

 

read my post, then we can fight about this

 

I dooooo think that in terms of like... Twinkle Emo whatever, American Football is one of the most influential albums for that, ever

 

Alright I'm not doing the Swans thread again with the passive aggressive condescension I'll just get out of this thread

 

I don't view it as controversial. The first LP is one of my favorite albums but who am I to say someone can't like it or think it's bad. It's all up to one's opinion.

 

I clearly said that saying you don't like something is one thing... as in it's ok not to like something

but disregarding something as p bad is so weird to me

 

I literally have no idea what this is about

 

after a few listens of this album, i realize i don't really like it as much as the first album or any of the recent owen records. i find that the lyrics of this are pretty personal and honest which is something i can appreciate-- but idk, i think kinsella wrote better lyrics for his last Owen project. i also get lost during the instrumental moments of this album, drowning in the swirling gorgeousness of it all, yet still reaching for an absent solidness to ground myself. the best tracks for me are composed with a stronger structural direction in mind, like I've Been Lost for So Long and Desire Gets in the Way. it's definitely good background noise, but thats not really what i wanted out of the continuation of this project

 

Agree. As an old person who lived through the era of LP1 it kind of shocks me that people can dismiss its importance when so much of the music loved by this site literally wouldn't exist without this record.

Not to pile in, but imo when I see people say something is 'bad' I tend to interpret that as they're saying a piece of art objectively has no value, as opposed to simply not liking something. If you don't personally like the album that's absolutely your right and no one should begrudge you it.

 

i mean it should be pretty obvious that someone saying they think a band/album is bad is them stating their subjective opinion

 

you can recognize something's importance without actually liking it.

 

I agree with those points, but to me saying something is 'bad' just seems more forceful than saying 'I don't like it' because it carries more of a value judgement about the worth of the art in question. Subsequently, a person who disagrees with that assessment is going to weigh in with a defence of the work, whereas a statement about not liking something is a personal judgement and because of which is for the most part unable to be rebutted. Rightly or wrongly, that's just the way I interpret language in the context of discussions about art.

 

in this particular situation, and how it was phrased, I felt otherwise - but in general, these are obviously subjective opinions here in the forum

 

when it comes to talking about music the words good and bad should be interpreted as "i do/dont like this" since its all subjective anyway. at least imo. i know some people argue that music criticism can be objective. I'm not one of those people

 

I think my view of the subject was probably shaped a lot by the blogs and forums I read growing up like Buddyhead etc in the late-90s/early 00s where music discussion existed in very binary terms - either good or bad - and when something was considered bad that became the accepted view of the community in question, such were the power of those tastemakers. See also early Pitchfork, particularly in relation to emo. It's good that music discussion and criticism these days online is a lot more nuanced and constructive.

 

yeah i feel you, I've seen an evolution of it even from my first years on AP (09 is when i joined) to now.

 

x record influenced a lot of bands and was one of the first to do x genre ---> objective statement

 

I think there is room for both objectivity and subjectivity in art appreciation

 

but this statement says nothing about the quality of the record which is what terms like "good" and "bad" are attempting to convey

 

maybe some forms of art, not music imo. and even in something like writing where you can argue for objective measures people can still pull things they like from writing that is objectively "bad," who's to say they're wrong for enjoying something? is it not good to them?

 

As a lit major taught to proofread and edit my whole life, critiquing and workshopping and making art "better," ive been taught that art can be measured like this:

Does the form serve the content? How well executed is the form in service to the content? For example, how do vocal melodies charge the lyrics? Does the lyrical content strengthen the backing instrumental, and vice versa? Is there a direction the song is heading toward and how well does it reach that end?

I think there are plenty of ways to critique music objectively without using "i like/dislike." Sometimes taste has nothing to do with it