Accountability in Music • Page 753

I know there are some stereotypes of hardcore that will never go away, especially from people that aren’t involved in it, but the idea that hardcore in 2023 is only angry white men looking to hit random people is absurd.

As someone that’s been going to hardcore shows (among other genres) since the early 2000s, the crowds at hardcore shows are definitely bigger and overall more violent, but it’s controlled violence from willing participants. Gone are the days of people seeking out someone they don’t know. It honestly didn’t even happen as much as itis made out to be then, but it did happen. Yes, there were some gang fights and some bad situations, but those are also more lore than reality in the grand scheme of the earlier eras. Not trying to downplay the situations that did take place.

In general, if you are in the pit area at a hardcore show today you know what you are getting into. And if you don’t, it’s pretty easy to get out of the way to another spot.

Also, having been around mostly the Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, Columbus, and Louisville scenes, the makeup of people in the scene versus what people seem to think it consists of are pretty different things. The amount of women, queer people, non-identifying people, and ethnicities is pretty varied.

Every scene or genre has its issues with their particular crowd. You see it at hip hop shows where someone died in the crowd, you see it at My Chem shows with them having to stop several times during their sets. You see it at Phoebe shows with people talking loudly. You see it at emo and pop punk shows with people aggressively elbowing through a crowd so they can be closer when there is no available room. You’ve seen it ever since the 1975 moved beyond club venues here with people simply screaming and holding the phone up the whole time. You see it any show with overly obnoxious drunk people. And yes, you see it at hardcore shows too with people not knowing how to carry themselves on stage and otherwise.

For me, it comes down to a lot of people getting into things and not knowing how to carry themselves. No genre is perfect.

 

I also agree with this.

I’ve seen more women throwing down crazy in pits the last 5-6 years than ever before.

 

I do agree with the notion that you should know what you’re getting into when in pit territory at those shows but also I’ve been seeing a lot of just full on targeting people in crowds at shows along with the cringey ass behavior online afterwards when they brag about hurting people.

 

I don’t spend my time with too much social media discourse beyond seeing posts as a news feed of sorts, so I can’t speak that stuff too much. But in terms of targeting that I see today it’s mostly willing participants that are trying to get one another. There is a lot of dapping and stuff going on in those pits these days. Not saying there aren’t some bad seeds mixed in bc I’m sure it still happens every now and then, but that is not the norm of what I see in the cities I attend shows and the videos that I see, and what I hear from other people involved.

 

One thing I've seen in videos of hardcore shows is people who crowdsurf onto the stage, then run and jump into the crowd feet first like they're gonna walk on heads. It's fucking batshit behavior to me

 

I feel like when it comes to the hardcore scene, there's always been that sort of "toughen up" sort of attitude where if you can't take something, you're weak. But that comes with the stereotypes and stuff. Knowing how to hold your own if you do throw down is key, but safety should always always always be on the back of your mind with that; not just for yourself but for everyone around you.

 

If someone interrupted my work at a live event or disturbed expensive equipment and my automatic response was to shove and then kick them, I’d be pretty shook up and feel awful that that happened, even if the other person was in the wrong to do what they did. Creepy/unsettling that people would celebrate that.

 

I wonder if he is reading this thread because he addressed this in a tweet:

 

Leonidas comparison and hocking merch, what a fucking dweeb

 

I saw people saying it in his instagram comments too so that’s probably what he’s referring to

 

Sonny just needs to take the L and move on. He’s not exactly helping his case.

 

For what it’s worth, I’m a capably sized white dude, and I’ve never felt even remotely comfortable in a mosh pit - people are stomping and throwing elbows everywhere, this is the culture and if I wanna enjoy a hardcore show I absolutely have to do it from the sidelines

The total effect of this on my life has been fairly minimal

 

Hardcore shows have never felt safer or more inclusive to me. Vocalists stopping to help people, diversity in the crowds with more diverse band members in the bands themselves. Even edge bands, as far and few between that exist or come about now, are way less hot headed and in your face about it.

I think back to the days where an opening chord/feedback meant all hell breaks loose and everyone gets punched. Death Before Dishonor, On Broken Wings, CEREMONY.

Really don’t miss those days and my nose appreciates their slumber.

 

not to throw gasoline on this, but looking for sunny to own up and apologize for this is not going to happen because if you know his history, he's just going to double down on any criticism from this and use this to promote eyes on hate5six. then he won't give a shit about it in a day and resume regularly scheduled program. it's happened any time he's had controversy over the years (e.g., look up the pontificate5six drama if you care and can find it).

for what it's worth, the post about this on r/hardcore had a contribution from a woman standing next/behind sunny when this happened, and she said that the girl who got kicked was smiling and laughing after it happened. i imagine that might have also informed how sunny has responded in this situation.

 

Well, it would seem he’s decided to take the opposite route.

 

Why is he so mad

 

Making multiple posts about the incident and claiming you’re not the main character when the woman hasn’t spoken about what happened at all after the incident sure sounds like main character syndrome to me. He needs to just let it go.

 

Yeah he needs to let it go and get back to recording hardcore bands I’ve never once heard of in my life

 

What do hardcore guys do if one of their boys, whose back they’ll always have, gets in a dispute/kicks one of their other boys, whose back they’ll always have? Does everyone just wail on everyone and then they get tired, roll on their backs in the grass, and laugh at how silly they’ve all been?

 

?

 

I can't stand it when people touch me or my stuff without asking.

So many people have absolutely no boundaries and it's fucking scary.