Accountability in Music • Page 609

So if anyone has a question or needs to parse out their feelings on the matter, they are not allowed to post in here and must go into the thread for the artist in question? I don't really agree with that.

 

I think if someone needs some context, they should get it. Beyond that, I think time and time again, it's been proven that people can't have rational conversations without it going off the rails. It sucks that it's that way, but there's been enough conversations and complaints that show this thread in its current form is broken and maybe it's the discussion part that needs to be taken away in order for it to exist.

 

As a followup, how do we ensure that the thread is used for news only? A mod? Self policing? If it's the latter, we're going to have the situation with people calling out "irrelevant" posts times 1000.


I just...think this conversation is kinda pointless in favor of a bigger one about how we speak to each other across the board.

 

So we have to jump through a hoop to get up to date, relevant information into the thread? I don't like that either.

 

Springboarding off of Spo's posts, I'd like to say that anytime someone acknowledges an artist's behavior while still discussing their work in an artist thread, they're accused of separating the art from the artist, which would require...ignoring that behavior. It's literally the opposite of what most users are doing.

And on a whole, I'd say MOST regular site users are really good about that. It's easy to weed out the trolls or people who don't care about accountability. I'm genuinely not trying to point fingers here, but I really, truly believe it comes down to the flippant aggression often shown to people who are still working out their feelings or do want to discuss problematic art and how they consume it as opposed to just posting "fuck this piece of shit and anyone who listens to them" or memes or whatever.

 

Just so we continue addressing every solution possible to improve the site, I don't think it's fair for that "minority" to have to leave a discussion. Obviously there should be a place for that minority opinion to discuss openly, whether it's a separate thread, dedicated to that artist, for that minority opinion. Is that a terrible idea? Totally realize it's basically echo chambers, but that's what every thread ends up being anyway.

 

If you can't show some level of understanding to someone who mostly agrees with your stance outside of their choice to listen or watch something for whatever personal reasons they have, what are we really doing here outside of purposefully making people feel uncomfortable for not having perfect media consumption habits?

 

As dylan shows, we've had the conversation about how we speak to each other again and again. It goes nowhere and nothing in this thread in particular gets fixed. I think how we speak to each other in the forums as a whole is an almost separate discussion from addressing the problem in here, in which people don't feel comfortable in a thread about accountability that should be safe for everyone.

 

If someone has an issue with an artist because it's triggering to their own personal experiences, I don't think it's a good idea for them to go into a toxic artist thread full of people supporting the monster(s) in question. That just seems like it could bring up more trauma

 

I use this thread to keep up to date with news. For that purpose, I see value in it. The discourse has always been a nightmare. I just don't see things getting better given the track record.

 

theres literally nothing wrong with separating the art from the artist imo and i regret spending so many years acting like there was. its a difference of perspective and outlook and the massive resentment toward the camp that does separate the art from the artist from those who dont drives tensions through the roof all across the site and its honestly ridiculous and cumbersome and exhausting to watch it happen over and over again and having to justify why i listen to xy or z every single time someone accuses me of giving so and so a pass because i dont give a shit about a tweet from five years ago or whatever. and thats actually something that happens and whoever said what we need to do is cut each other some slack is absolutely right. attacking individuals on this site isnt gonna get any closer to holding artists accountable for the things they do. and there's also disagreement between what level of behavior is worth holding someone accountable for, because ill be hoenest with you i dont give a shit about most of what people bring up lately and it feels weird saying so because i dont want people to think i dont care about these issues, i just really dont give a shit if someone says something on twitter or whatever the case may be. but again ive been accused of giving these artists a pass, whatever that means, and directly called out. for what? for what reason? it just seems pointless to get worked up over it.

 

Aren’t the two hand in hand though? People don’t feel safe in this thread about accountability BECAUSE of the way some people speak to others in here.

 

Do people really need "don't be a dickhead" spelled out? I mean, if that's what it takes, why don't we actually do that instead of talking in circles?

Off the top of my head:
Don't personally attack people
Don't shame people for their listening habits
Don't chase people out of threads
Engage in good faith dialogue
Make the effort to answer questions

That seems like a reasonable starting place, no?

 

Look this stuff is important but we don’t exactly need by the minute tweets posted in here when something comes out and if none of the contributors are around to post it the discussion can always be had in the artist or album thread. I’m having a hard time understanding why actionable proposed changes to this thread are receiving more pushback in this discussion than vague site wise “be nicer” changes.

 

All of those are great but these especially. We see both of these a whole fucking lot and it's really frustrating.

 

Don't find the wife of a user you don't like on twitter and make fun of her on the site
Don't have a private space where you talk shit on users on the site that you don't like and then post links to the site where people who haven't posted on the site in months can come just to dogpile...stuff like that

 

I feel conflicted posting on a site that started as a Blink-182 fan site that ignores Skiba's racism and the complicity of the other band members. Most of my music tastes, which formed my identity as a teenager, comes from me interacting with people on this site which makes it feel like home. I continue to learn about amazing music but it always feel weird. I guess as a black man I've just become use to this cause I've been around white majority cities the majority of my life.

Anyways, this thread tends to have people who see the problems the scene has that prevents it from being a place for everyone. I get that conversations are intense and can even be disrespectful. I rather spend my time in this thread than arguing with blink fans in the main blink thread. I feel like most people don't care about the scene being more inviting for people and just want to enjoy the music. I don't feel that here in this thread though.

 

that's... not what happened lol

 

I'm not sure what the exact solution is for this thread as someone who isn't an active participant in this thread beyond an occasional post here and there, but I definitely don't think closing it up is ideal. As another person in this thread who doesn't use Twitter or actively search for music news outside of the scenes I'm interested in, this thread serves as a nice repository of issues and discussion related to accountability for bands/scenes I'm unfamiliar with. I'd like to keep it around even if commentary around the actual posts will be moderated. Just my 2 cents.

 

its been a trip these last few pages watching someone who does this say threads must just work themselves out

 

alright this discussion is heading south real quick, i'm out

 

The targeted dogpiling stuff is truly bonkers and I'm glad someone is bringing it up.

 

Word so it's just a coincidence that people who literally never post about hip hop show up in the thread when there's drama? Or do you mean the first one, because I don't even remember the specifics of that one.

 

the first one. the second one is true lol