Accountability in Music • Page 608

Almost 3 months to the day. Just lock the thread and make a few of the frequent contributors to the thread mods so they can update the thread going forward. The cyclical conversations in here fucking suck and make this a worse place each time it happens.

 

The abolition of this thread does nothing to get rid of the problem the site/its users have. Some of the ugliest conversations on here have taken place in artist/album threads.

 

That happens in here too, though. At least this thread can be kept uncluttered as a place to get the news from.

 

I don't think it should be viewed as cure-all or even tip of the iceberg in dealing with the problems with these forums. I think it's more saying the intent of this was to provide a safe space for people to discuss and keep updated on problematic behavior in music. It clearly failed as the former, but can still function as the latter.

 

And also just because it isn't a perfect solution doesn't mean we should continue to do nothing.

 

I'm okay with keeping it a news-only thread, but I would like people to be able to ask follow-up questions if they aren't 100% understanding a post and genuinely want to learn. I don't think it should be shut down entirely.

 

It's wild that the very easy solution of "don't be a dickhead" and "stop turning accountability into an inside joke with your online friends" is being ignored in favor of "close this thread".

 

Agreed. I don't know, it's pretty wild comparing this to the Accountability in Entertainment forum, which, while not perfect, seems to serve as a pretty cut-and-dry repository of problematic behavior with some commentary. I understand people engage differently and more personally with this compared to celebrity behavior. But it would be great if it could be closer to AIE. But I digress.

 

Considering nobody can agree on what constitutes "being a dickhead", as everyone thinks they're the ones not being a dickhead and the people they don't like are the ones being dickheads, I personally don't think "hoping everyone suddenly changes and the thread works itself out" is very realistic. We couldn't even have this current conversation, which was proceeding very reasonably, without people jumping in here and acting like pricks.

 

I think "Don't be a dickhead" isn't a very easy solution for people on this site.

 

I personally think, and I’ve said this before, if we all are a bit kinder and more understanding towards each other this thread could be much better. Obviously there are times where you need to be stern, and trolls do come in here to start shit or purposefully be obtuse, but more often than not most of us are generally on the same page here. Yeah some of us (speaking generally) may have differences on how problematic art should be consumed, or if it should be consumed at all, but more often than not this thread is bogged down by people not willing to change their view or come to an understand as to why someone feels the way they do.

 

I propose we add a 3rd button at the bottom of the posts: a dickhead button. If you get more "dickhead" clicks than "like" clicks, you're being a dickhead and you should go take a walk. We just need to figure out what the dickhead version of the heart icon will be.

 

The second part of my post with the "turning accountability into a game with your online friends" has not been questioned by anyone, so clearly everyone knows what I mean by that. We could start there

 

Just flip the heart icon upside-down and smooth out the edges.

 

I am truly trying to come up with a solution here, I don't know what else to say. These weird passive aggressive posts really aren't helping, imo.

 

it's been 5 years and the exact same problem occurs every few months lol i barely even lurk in here anymore because of how much shit there is to wade through just to get to a relevant tweet or nontoxic post. if y'all wanna leave the thread as is in perpetuity then fine, but it's just ridiculous at this point. very much we've tried nothing simpsons meme .

 

Do we want this thread to be neater or do we want the site to not be a complete toxic dumping ground? I don't understand how anyone is acting like this thread is the only place on the site shit like this happens.

 

it's the only place this happens consistently.

 

I am on team “news only” personally. Take in the information, do what you will with it.

 

Yeah I mean this just happened in the Kanye thread, it’s not exclusive to this thread by any means.

 

Again, that's not the point of the current conversation, which was what could be done to fix this thread specifically. All of that other stuff continues to happen while this thread remains in its current state anyway, so why should the fact that fixing this thread won't fix other threads prevent us from at least starting with this one?

 

My personal take…. I don’t use Twitter and this thread is pretty informative and helpful seeing allegations against artists. Yeah, I can get that from bigger publications, but not artists in “the scene”. Maybe just use this for articles and sources…

 

No one is acting like this is the only thread where this happens. It's been brought up that making this news-only will likely send people to the toxic threads. But this thread in particular should be a place where people can take in news about problematic behavior without all the stuff that usually comes with this forum. We can solve one problem and focus on another.

 

The majority of the users in the Donda thread made clear what their stance was in that thread, and now the minority who don't agree aren't in there anymore. Seems like that's a good example of the thread working itself out, no?

The blink-182 thread is another example of a thread working itself out.

 

There’s a behavior I’ve noticed in threads for artists whose behavior spans different degrees of bad or problematic, where there are some people who come into the thread and either imply or outright state that anyone discussing the work is a hypocrite who doesn’t care about accountability. And yes, there are some people in artist threads who duck out whenever these issues come up and wait for the conversation to blow over, and that’s frustrating. But there are also people in artist threads who take an artist’s problematic words or actions into account and we can see that and take it into the rest of the conversation, but for some, that’s not enough, it’s black and white, talking about Kanye or whoever is automatically excusing everything he ever did. I don’t think that behavior serves or helps anyone aside from those doing the black and white condemnations/attacks. Because nothing in entertainment is black and white and I promise the loudest person about accountability and black and white morality when it comes to this website and accountability, have recently seen a movie starring a known piece of shit abuser or something. So if everyone started from a point of understanding that no one is on the same page about how exactly to engage with problematic art, but we’re (largely, hopefully) all on the same page about these things being bad and needing to change while recognizing that posting on a small message board can only do so much, I think that would be a more helpful starting place than aggressively policing what people talk about.