Accountability in Music • Page 606

50 years from now when you're on your death bed, I imagine you bringing your loved one close to you, and in painful regret whispering your final words:

"I've created a monster."

 

I dunno. I know it’s been brought up many a times but maybe we can lay out what people want to get out of this thread/what people want to be able to use this thread for and then work on making the thread focused on that. That could be posting about artists you’re still grappling with how to handle the actions they’ve done (and yes, still listening in some cases) for example. Whatever it is, I think it would be beneficial to actually try instead of just bring up the idea of changing the thread and then never trying to implement any change.

I can’t comment on whether this has been tried before, but if not, it may be worth a shot.

 

The only thing that makes sense to me is something that others have suggested many times in the past: this thread would solely be used for posting articles/tweets about artist allegations with zero commentary. That way it functions as a means to raise awareness without people on either side muddying that purpose with commentary.

Then, any discussion of the actual artists, good or bad, should happen in those artists' threads.

 

This thread is my number one source for drama.

 

Right see like my proposal would eliminate comments like this one because, presumably, mods would step in, delete them, and issue a warning to the user that this isn't what the Accountability thread is for.

 

I like a “presented without comment” approach. I like to keep up on what bands need some kind of accountability, even if it’s something I can’t offer besides not listening to them. There’s a lot that would slip through the cracks if it weren’t for this thread.

But I also can’t stand the dunking if you say something wrong or try to correct someone, even it’s in good faith. Totally agree that posts about allegations, etc. would work best if it’s just presented dry in here and sussed out in the artists’ respective thread.

 

I actually prefer commentary. Too often I just see a lot of posters doing drive-by Twitter link dumps over and over and a lot of those ... have nothing to do with real accountability. That weird Gene Simmons post could have used an explanation by the poster as to why they thought it belonged in here rather than a context-free, seemingly nonsensical addition to the thread.

 

Except that just shuffles the toxicity from this thread into other threads on the site. It doesn't actually solve the fundamental issue of how we discuss these things with each other.

In the past I've floated the idea of rebranding as "Ethics in Music" to create space for conversations about less clear matters, e.g. the Gene Simmons post mentioned above. In my mind that eliminates the temptation to attempt to hold each other accountable rather than the musicians themselves.

 

As the commentary appears to be the cause of the issues here (as everyone seems to agree on the need for raising awareness and using this thread as a means of doing so), then I think sacrificing the commentary for the greater good is the best avenue forward, personally.

 

Well we were solely talking about how to fix this thread, specifically.

Also those conversations already happen in the other threads anyway, so at least this thread can be kept clean from commentary and toxicity.

And another thing, in the artist threads, they seem to be policing themselves anyway, with the regular posters in those threads coming to a consensus on what they are and aren't comfortable discussing. And the minority who don't agree are typically outnumbered pretty quickly. See the Donda thread for a recent example of this. So I don't think it's really shifting the problem in the way you're suggesting it would be.

 

Even if this thread was renamed to what you are saying, something like the Gene Simmons tweet would still not be relevant, to be clear. He got COVID, the band immediately suspended touring so they can quarantine, and won't be back on the road for ten days per doctors instructions. Unless I missed something, they are doing everything they should be doing when contracting the virus on the road.

 

I agree it's not a great example, it's just the one most recently mentioned.

But equally, I don't think it's bad to have a place where we say "folks, here's this grey area situation I'm thinking through, what do we think of it"?

 

could do that in the artist's thread too, though, and frankly it would be more appropriate to do it there than here

 

I feel like there's this new weird thing where a person will post something seemingly irrelevant/not appropriate for here, get corrected and then repeatedly call out other people for not posting relevant/appropriate things. Someone posted that Gene Simmons tweet, do we need 10 posts of people asking why it needs to be in here?

 

True

 

the fact that we've been going at this for pages now just sort of, confirms the notion that, this thread is beyond salvation lol

Like, the argument that we should not discuss problematic bands in their own threads is silly, because, it's THEIR dedicated thread. all too often the issue really is that if people stay out of the accountability threads they can continue living their lives not knowing their favorite artists are shitty. they dont want the band threads 'poisoned' with accountability discussions.

 

Anyway the thread title isn't the problem, lol. It's how people interact with each other and approach discussion/accountability as a whole. You close this thread or move into album threads, the problem persists.

 

Right and the bands' threads are really where those discussions SHOULD take place, whether those people want it there or not. This thread should be more of a repository for the news, especially for people who might not actually want to go into a specific artist's thread for whatever reason.

And just by posting allegations in this thread, that doesn't preclude you from also posting it in the artists' threads too.

 

Maybe I’m in the minority here, but isn’t it fairly easy to see a post that may or may not be relevant here and…ignore it? Just scroll past. If a user is doing it consistently, then sure say something if you must, but does it require this 3 page discourse that’s even more of a derailment?

 

yepp, which is another reason why a ban on commentary in this thread would be helpful

 

The real purpose of the thread is to have someone post a vague allegation and then we all take turns guessing who it's about. Did I not make that clear in the OP?

 

That’s happened for a long time. @ItsAndrew would occasionally post something that maybe didn’t need to be in here necessarily and it’d get drawn out for three days.

 

I think the commentary for me personally is typically helpful. It clears up a vague tweet or provides context, or backstory that I may not have had. If people just said less, I think this would be a more productive thread. People don’t need to commentate on every little thing. Maybe a more cognizant and thoughtful discourse in your own head before commenting? “Your” being used generically, not singling anyone out in particular.

 

The forest through the trees thing here is that there are many, many members of this site who don't give a fuck about accountability or the feelings of survivors or any form of justice, restorative or not. And those people don't post in here. They don't engage in the convos at all, they dip the second they get brought up. And then we wind up arguing with each other in here about the minutiae.

 

I'm on the same page as you, the human ego is a motherfucker though.