Accountability in Music • Page 576

it is absolutely *wild* to see a band who claims to give a shit about restorative justice claim to be rehabilitating an assaulter by *going out on their headlining tour with them* and seemingly acting like anything less is condemnation to a remote island for life jfc

 

At request of BN?

As far as a dumpster fire, that makes sense. The timing of the BN reveal was at the peak of me too and had A LOT of conversation and eyes.

 

Yes thank you, this is exactly what I’m saying, any amount of money they’re making from performing compromises their objectivity

 

no, at request of several users - myself included, it just had to be closed because the fighting, arguing, and shit slinging was going in circles for weeks.

 

I don't know why I just did this to myself, but I was curious so I actually went to look up when those BN threads closed. The Science Fiction album thread closed in November of 2017 - but moreso because it had reached the 42K post limit and a new one was never started (according to the last post in there). The actual BN thread didn't close until December of 2018 - and didn't seem to be too active the past month or so (there seemed to be some heated discussions in November of 2018, but then no posts until Dec. 31 and then it was closed/archived).

To be honest, there have been a lot of dumpster fire threads since then that haven't been closed, and many of these threads make people uncomfortable for a variety of reasons, but not much action is done. Not saying the BN threads shouldn't have been shut down, but maybe some other threads need to be too.

EDIT TO CLARIFY: I'm not sure if there is an actual post limit, but the final message said it had reached 42K posts and 'it was time'

 

This is the survivor of Dylan's assault response to Proper.

 

It's the emotional absolutes on either side that make the opposite tune out, once again

Guy from Proper is getting indignant repeatedly because "can't you see I think I'm doing the right thing?" No one cares what you think you're doing, ever. They care how they interpret your actions. He's putting his emotional absolutes at the forefront and seeing nothing else.

Conversely, no one arguing with him is nearly as interested in restorative justice as they are compensatory justice. Every points devolves into "this is how I feel about it and that's that." De-platforming of artists has never been about protection or safe spaces nearly as much as it is about returning some measure of pain and loss back onto those who caused it. Which isn't even wrong IMO, humans are vengeful beings, but it certainly isn't productive as y'all like to pretend

If bad people can't change and good people can't forgive, what genuinely is the point of this thread? If accountability to you only means punishment and disappearing forever, truly what do you think is going to change?

 

i agree with a lot of what you're saying about the arguments taking place, though i do think there have been several replies back to them that could have turned productive, they just continued to counter with the stubborn racially driven narrative they're trying to push. they very clearly are not remotely interested in conversation though they say their 'DMs are open'.

though, i think in a lot of cases, accountability is disappearing forever. i do not think everyone deserves a second chance. if that's closed-minded of me, so be it, i am not out here championing for everyone to forgive those who have caused harm. de-platforming an artist can be about protection and safe spaces if it means that's one less abuser in the scene. i don't think anyone here is pretending that accountability is something it isn't. i think we settled those arguments last weekend.

i just think at the end of the day, Proper. has made a true and complete ass of themselves, and I truly hope that someone whos opinions and words they respect comes to them soon to discuss why this was just the worst way to go about promoting their decisions to tour with an abuser.

 

restorative justice doesn't provide that the offender gets put back into the exact same circumstances that allowed them to commit their harm in the first place. Deplatforming is a legitmate form of accountability, especially as it is one part of the restorative process that comes at the request of the victims and the community. And deplatforming doesn't have to be permanent either and It's not the only resolution that's part of the restorative process.

 

As an aspiring (bad) black musician, it's extremely distressing to me that race is being used as a false equivalency to rehabilitation being denied black people here.... I don't have much more to say on why rn though

 

I think restorative justice CAN happen but not in a case where the abuser only went to therapy for a short period of time and took no time off from not only their job where they could potentially do more harm but also their position of power which gives them leverage in this situation. If Dylan put in the work in terms of making amends for what he did by following the survivor’s requests and also worked on being an advocate for sexual assault survivors aside from “donating proceeds” one time or a few times, then I would not have an issue with him regaining his platform. When he just puts out a statement that says the survivor did not want to go the mediation route and then continues with his career, that’s not accountability and that doesn’t solve the situation.

 

I'm attaching the response that Dylan's survivor made to his apology. I feel this has not been centered in this discussion enough.

 

Also, while Proper have definitely been making an ass of themselves and need to take several seats, let’s not forget that Belmont and Capstan are also complicit in this. They aren’t being mentioned much because they are being quiet on social media but they are also not off the hook here!

 

what a scumbag

 

that's another bag of worms for Belmont, TMP aren't the only band with issues on the tour

 

As if the whole “let’s stay quiet for months after the survivor comes forward and then release a brief, terrible statement only though our mailing list then shut up about it forever and move on with touring” wasn’t bad enough, they’re releasing a song with Matt Skiba of all people.

 

lmao wow

 

jesus christ lol

 

Holy shit I can’t believe that’s real

 

if someone created a 'The Onion' type of website based solely around Chorus.FM headlines, "Frontbottoms releasing song with Matt Skiba" would absolutely be top of the page, except, this is actually real.

 

I am amazed this is his statement

 

the responses are incredible

 

Kid rock 100% drops n-bombs daily

 

hahahah holy shit 'great balls'

 

there is no way Kid Rock has gay friends because there is no way Kid Rock has friends