Accountability in Music • Page 567

I lurk this thread and have learned some new things (mostly about industry folks). But at the same time, this particular thread also reminds me what's bad about "message board culture" where things can get pretty toxic, pretty quickly. As a woman, I've noticed it does get kinda aggressive in here, and that's something that usually steers me away from commenting on a regular basis.

But as for holding people accountable? It goes far beyond "bad people in the music industry who are seen as abusers." If we're not calling out people for toxic behavior, then who will? Call out/cancel culture is a bit much sometimes, but it honestly does change the narrative. If more people are talking about why x person does something bad, or says something bad, it can be seen as a way to learn from mistakes and not do it again.

But if people are just picking fights and end up bulling people off the site, that's not a good thing at all. Having a diverse swath of voices is important to keeping accountability in check. If those voices go silenced, then what's the point?

 

well i'm not even sure what the aggression is you're referring to. someone said how there was a difference between holding someone accountable and issues like the Ian Cohen thing.

 

Yes

 

Yeah I mean I can't think of any off the top of my head, that's for sure. Most of them get defensive and shitty and either dig their heels in, go away forever without doing anything, or lie about having done stuff and reenter the industry anyway. It's pretty bleak.

Pretty sure there was a post on the last page about Camila Cabelo doing it, but I don't follow that artist so I can't speak to it myself.

 

I know it’s very easy to take offense without context, but I was genuinely asking. Glad to know you were able to provide info to those asking.

 

this all started because a post, one that i believe you quoted, saying that a non-binary poster was “one of the worst in this thread” and that they were virtue signaling. and when they said they were leaving the site because of it, others were like wtf because, obviously, that is bullshit and sucks. so, again, you can pretend the aggression is only coming from people faux-caring about “accountability,” but it is just as often coming from people getting bent out of shape because their faves are being posted about in this thread and that makes them feel complicated things. i’ve been guilty of this last part myself. it happens. but don’t pretend like the aggression is only coming from people pretending to care about the issues for klout or some dumbass shit like that

 

i don’t even understand what this thread is, how is anyone gonna hold anyone else accountable from a tiny thread in the corner of the internet. just rename it getting mad at people in music and move on

 

lol fuck off man

 

i didn't quote anything. i referred to someone talking about virtue-signalling; i'm confident you that you know full well that i didn't quote someone who said someone else was one of the worst in this thread. so either your reading comprehension is bad or you're being intentionally deceitful. i think it sucks that anyone is chased away from this site. but we can start on an extremely neutral ground - there is a meaningful point to this thread and holding people accountable is good. numerous people have said they feel like the same people come in and talk over everyone and show a lot of unnecessary aggression. i wouldn't say virtue-signalling is necessarily the correct term, but it ignores the feelings of others purely to show your own righteousness.

 

Yeah we should just delete the thread and go back to ignoring all the shit artists do, like everyone used to do. At least then we could still enjoy stuff amirite.

 

I've learned a lot from this thread. Specifically, it's helped me see through shitty apologies. However, I do wish it was easier to have an open discussion for shedding problematic artists/bands from my life. For example, BN beyond literally saved my life growing up, when the carousel of medication roulette was not helping. A positive interaction with JL kept me alive. So, having to rationalize this life saving experience with sympathizing with someone who's life was destroyed by his is difficult. So, when I come to the only public forum site I care about wanting to discuss how difficult it's been to remove their influencer from my life going forward, and how it's not easy for me mentally/emotionally (while others are constantly sharing posts about how they sold all their vinyl day one and donated it to a charity)...it just sucks. Sure I can talk to my therapist, they're great - but they don't understand the influence of the scene like this community does and frankly they never will.

I also understand that my whole outlook can be criticized by saying "no one is telling you what to listen to/no one is telling you you can't talk about it being difficult to move on, etc." I know. But, maybe it would help to talk about how problematic artists did positive things for me (kept me alive), and how to move on. Because cold turkey won't work for me, and it's hard to not feel shitty for it.

I don't know.

 

I think this thread would be so much better off with a character limit on posts, or some kind of rule to prevent the short and obnoxious "fuck this band, fuck this guy, this guy is scum" etc etc style one-sentence posts that truly add nothing to the discourse and only come across as performative aggression. Those posts aren't educational, they're not holding anyone accountable, they're doing nothing except perpetuating a culture of aggression in this thread that many, many posters in here have cited as their reason for leaving the site.

Go through this thread's history and count the number of people who have complained about this exact problem. So many posts from several years ago read like they were written today. There's one from nohandstoholdonto in 2019 (which I won't quote here) that has like, 60+ likes. I think that shows this sentiment is largely agreed upon.

 

Pinegrove. Acknowledged wrong doing. Stepped away. Worked with victim via mediation. Held to account to never put anyone in that situation again. On going therapy. Using platform for good.

 

again, i’d say i care about the feelings of the other who was chased off this site for caring about a songwriter who killed himself because of his depression, depression that was trivialized by the blogger who was posted about in this thread. talk about reading compression lol. you are extremely bad at it.

 

Imagine seeing people get angry about shit worth getting angry over and then immediately jumping to the conclusion that those people must be insincere about it. It's the wildest shit I see on this site regularly.

Also it's funny as hell to see people accuse others of getting angry "for clout" and then in the same conversation say that this thread is pointless because it's a small corner of the internet. It's gotta be one or the other, either we think we're getting clout from posting here or this place is so insignificant that it may as well not even exist. Can't be both at once.

 

I didn’t say anything about clout dawg

 

He lied about complying with the survivor's wishes, he didn't actually do that. Also the survivor stopped participating in the mediation. And there are more survivors that haven't come forward.

 

There are more people posting in this thread than just you dawg

 

Nah pretty sure this is my Twitter feed

 

you are the king of building up strawmen. you can care about someone being chased off this site, and the many many people chased off for finding this thread too aggressive.

i've tried to be polite but i'll just say it at this point: you are one of the biggest problems. you are constantly toxic, aggressive, self-righteous, pompous, argumentative. you constantly twist what people have said to fit into your narrative. constant snide, sniping comments. just one comment ago saying how i quoted something that literally never happened. in the other accountability thread you're demanding an apology from ellie kemper for something that happened 20 years ago when she was a teenager; in the same thread you tried to minimize how she would feel about seeing things because "you never interact with the 20 people who comment on your instagram". it's the most reductive, black and white thinking i could possibly imagine.

 

This mf said "reading compression"


That's my one and only contribution to this bi-annual shitty discussion that causes people to get uncomfortable and leave the site.

 

my number one fan

 

People have said in this thread many, many times that everyone is free to listen to whatever they need to in order to get them through the day. No judgment about what one does privately. People have to draw their own lines about what they can and can't listen to.

Nobody is going to fault you for coming in here and talking about how you struggle to let go of a band like Brand New. You clearly recognize that what happened was reprehensible and you wouldn't defend the band from criticism, so you're not part of the problem if you just make a post about how you still have mixed feelings. Nobody is going to criticize you for that.

It's uncritical public support and pushback against criticism that crosses a line. If you came in here and said "I don't care about what happened, I still listen to Brand New anyway, fuck the haters" you'd get pushback obviously. But that's not the case.