Accountability in Music • Page 560

So I want to make sure I’m understanding correctly. It sounds like the OP and at least one other person were calling on Phoebe to speak out in support of Palestine. The OP is then saying they were harassed by some of Phoebe’s fans on Twitter and, as a result, took to her DMs. Based on that, it seems like a large part of the OP’s concern is that Phoebe saw those messages and essentially ignored them. Am I misunderstanding or missing anything?

 

I think people really fall into the “I’m the main character” mentality too often when it comes to certain things. Like, what evidence is there that phoebe actually saw this user getting ridiculed? I didn’t go looking for the instance that they are referring to, but I imagine people probably get into spats in the replies all the time and people with big followings might not even notice...

also, think of all the dms she sorts through on the daily

highly likely that she really isn’t seeing this other person’s dms since they are likely buried under a mountain of other (mostly pointless) messages, despite the fact that she seemed to reply to them once

 

I also want to quickly comment that the OP (abitallie) appears to be a Palestinian living in Gaza, and while I think it’s fair game to discuss the situation at hand, we should all be cautious of coming down too hard on someone speaking out about their experience as a survivor of such immense oppression and injustice. I don’t think anyone has necessarily done that thus far, but I feel like it’s important to keep in mind.

 

I looked into that myself, but I think my point still stands. I can’t imagine what that person is having to live in, especially reading that they are still trying to complete exams and stuff amongst the attacks. I think they are justified in their feelings and should not be accosted for letting us see their perspective. I just don’t think they’re spot on here unless there is something big I missed.

 

Yeah I feel for the person and get the frustration. I’m just so overwhelmed by stan culture on Twitter. Immediately jumping to “Phoebe Bridgers doesn’t care if I die”...idk. Don’t put that much weight into rich rock stars. She should use her platform for good and speak out, and maybe she will

 

It appears that she even retweeted a pro Palestine picture the other day too. Is it the most full-throated support...no. But it’s there for people to see.

 

Oh for sure! As of right now I’m just... not totally seeing what is “disgusting” about this. I mean, I will say that it opens up questions about an artists responsibility to 1) use their platform to speak out on social justice issues and 2) be held accountable for the actions of their fan base, and those are questions worth exploring.

FWIW, Phoebe did retweet a post condemning Biden’s support of Israel.

 

What the fuck is the white girl from Pasadena supposed to do? It’s one thing to hold people accountable for shitty behavior, it’s another thing to go after people for not taking a stand or speaking up on every world event at risk of being blacklisted.

 

People cannot internalize stuff like that. How often do musicians/celebs chat in their own DM’s to begin with? Most avoid it. If Phoebe didn’t speak out because she doesn’t feel she knows enough or doesn’t have a real voice in the matter, how is she a bad person for that?

Doesn’t the general public like to criticize those who speak on matters they aren’t really understanding of/correlated to?

 

Let's take a step back. This person has tweets saying they genuinely believed they'd die by the end of the month because of the attacks on Gaza. I can't begin to imagine what that's like, and I'd be willing to bet I can say the same for most of us on this website. Is it really so ridiculous for someone with that lived experience to be upset that an artist they love stayed silent on an issue that is literally life or death for them?

And look, I do not personally believe Phoebe is obligated to Tweet about this or any other social issue. I think it's good when artists do use their platform in that way, but I'm not sure I believe artistry and activism have to be one and the same. However, I think we can all employ a little empathy regarding someone living through arguably the biggest human rights issue of our lifetime. Although I'm not inclined to say Phoebe did anything wrong per se, I can understand that perspective.

 

I didn’t take away from their experience at all. I 100% understand the awful and grave circumstances, but that doesn’t mean I can turn my brain off from what is logical and say yeah, they should be mad at Phoebe right now.

 

I don’t think it diminishes the seriousness of the person’s experience to say yes, that is a ridiculous expectation.

 

I always find it super weird when people try and cancel artists for not tweeting/posting/talking about an issue.

I understand cancelling people for having shitty takes, like if they were pro Blue Lives (Patrick Carleton) or the obvious with like the many many sex offenders in the scene. But people might feel like they genuinely have nothing to add to the conversation, or aren't educated on the topic enough to speak up, or that they have no real power for change.

Silence on an issue IN your band (looking at you TFB) is obviously shit, but silence on an external issue should be the opposite of a talking point.

 

Idk. Like I said, I don’t really think any artist is obligated to talk about anything. But to say that this person’s response is ridiculous seems slightly callous to me.

Also, I don’t really think it’s fair to say anyone is trying to “cancel” her. Like, it’s a few people mad on Twitter. No one I’ve seen is calling for her to, like, quit music over this.

 

Phoebe twitter stans are another breed of people entirely. I dont think i could let anything that comes from that sector of twitter hold any legitimate water.

 

I don’t think it’s hard to tweet #FreePalestine or amplify Palestinian voices - if my Twitter feed has wall-to-wall coverage, Phoebe’s will, too. Posting a tweet is the bare minimum when Phoebe’s reach has become massive

 

the problem with tweeting one thing for the sake of tweeting it is that then it's never ending. it ends up becoming a "my pain is bigger than your pain" type of thing. ultimately, phoebe isn't an activist, she's a musician. you could break down every dumb thing she tweets and say "well, if she has time to tweet about that then what about this infinitely more important thing?". someone mentioned the main character issue and it's precisely that - she also isn't tweeting about my aunt who has been unfairly fired from her job, or my friend who was killed, or whatever else you want to say.

ultimately if she's not educated or truly is unsure about everything palestine, does her voice really add anything? it becomes another thing for her fanbase to tick off - "yes, phoebe is on the right side of this, thank god" rather than like... actually amplifying anyone's voice or making any tangible difference. there's an argument that simply showing solidarity matters, and that's fair, but for the vast majority of people it's just a purity contest - my favourite is the most woke, etc. i've followed this situation a little and you will see a lot of her stans saying she needs to be held accountable; ultimately their focus is entirely on phoebe and what she does or doesn't do, rather than, you know, the actual atrocities taking place. it's a tough line to walk and i completely understand how exhausting it must be to be an empathetic person in the public eye who is told they absolutely must make some comment on something that you're not all that educated on.

god only knows how the person initiating this is feeling; it's a situation that i'm guessing almost none of us on here will ever even be capable of comprehending. i get fully that having your favourite not do something that seems so easy must be gut-wrenching. despite that, i think the anger is completely misplaced. phoebe hasn't done anything and really isn't obligated to, no matter how harsh that might seem. i'm sure we've all seen comments about being sure to take a break from everything going on, pretty much permanently. it's okay to look after your own mental health and well-being. it's also okay to simply not be online, which is what she claimed in the reply to one of the dms. no one owns her time or what she does with it.

 

There have been several times in my adult life I've had to stop consuming news/current events to prevent killing myself, & I have a hunch I'm not the only one. People are not inherently bad for not speaking out in opposition to whatever today's current atrocity is, things are definitely not that black & white

 

I agree with the majority of your points, but I would highlight that there are a lot of music listeners who never would have wound up interested in radical politics/social justice had it not been been for artists raising awareness around those issues. There are plenty of Phoebe fans - specifically younger ones - who probably could be influenced by her in a way they might not be otherwise. Is Phoebe or anyone else obligated to speak on every political event? Not at all. But there is an additive “good” to someone with a platform like hers sharing info that simply cuts against US propaganda.

 

Speaking of Phoebe I would've hoped that her support of the Secretly Union extended to Pitchfork as well

 

Yes, it is definitely ridiculous. They do not seem to know Phoebe at all. They are just one of countless people who are fans of hers. There is no correlation between their suffering, which is undoubtedly horrible, and whatever Phoebe does or doesn’t say about an issue. It’s not contradictory to both sympathize with their very real problems and say that taking it out on Phoebe Bridgers is not in any way reasonable. This is the kind of absurdity that sprouts from fandom culture, and it is truly bizarre seeing someone invoke it the way that they did in a situation like this.

 

Of course it's extremely rad and beneficial if our favorite artists use their platforms to speak out about crucial issues, but "[Person X] does not care about me if I die" because they didn't respond to your tweets or DMs (which no one is obligated to do) seems not only extreme to me, but unhealthy, especially paired with the point about "being in her fandom longer than anyone"

 

At the end of the day, I agree that they’re displaying some misplaced anger. They’re clearly not in a good frame of mind, understandably. Maybe I’m being too gentle with them, but I personally think a little extra grace is warranted when someone is going through what they’re going through. None of this changes my opinions of Phoebe, but I disagree that it’s totally absurd to want someone with a pretty massive platform to use that platform as a way of promoting an important message.

 

I think it’s absurd because their desire for her to use her platform in that way clearly comes from a frame of mind that Phoebe is more than just some musician that they like and support, that she is like some close friend who has personally betrayed them. It’s a very confused, disturbing mindset and yeah it’s not like it’s the end of the world for them to be saying these things and their real life situation is obviously deserving of sympathy. But what they’re saying is imo indicative of a bigger problem of these parasocial relationships with celebrities

 

Yeah, all I can add is that I agree in certain aspects and disagree in others. At this point, I’m speaking more towards the broader question of “should musicians use their platform to promote social justice?” more so than I am those tweets in isolation. I get what people are saying about this particular incident being pretty over the top, but the fundamental issue underpinning it is valid imo.