General Politics Discussion [ARCHIVED] • Page 319

So this backs up in two ways what I've said: the democratic base is larger in absolute numbers, but that doesn't lead to a law being able to be passed. Where those people are matter. And, you need the votes to pass anything — a large democratic base supporting something means very little. Some of the stuff that polls highest will never even see a vote. Just look at basic gun control support in the polls. It destroys, just absolutely destroys, any talk of public health care ... and yet.

 

confused. isn't it at least good he's mentioning this, although certainly sugarcoating it to a degree? or am I misunderstanding his message?

 

Edited a sentence into my first post, it isn't really about "educating" people, it's about priming them. If their taxes going up is the most salient fact, they're going to be less supportive even if they knew taxes were going to go up before. Just as if you primed them with the fact that their drug costs will go down, their support will go up even if they knew that fact beforehand as well. And again the study only primes the respondents with negatives of the system. It's questionnaire bias. The response to the unbiased question of 'do you support single payer/medicare for all" is the most credible, not the least.

I'll give it a look when I have time later.

 

Read the study for the answers to your first part. It's all in there. It's why it's important to read.

 

Oh it's good, my sarcastic 'lesser evil' was aimed at the Obama administration and Clinton, not Senator Murphy.

 

got you got you. i always felt that he was one of the more genuine people in senate.

 

Hillary Clinton Picks TPP and Fracking Advocate To Set Up Her White House

choices :(

 

That's fair, although I have a more cynical view of why the democrats do so little for their base. I think the gun control comparison is unfair though, because the the pro-gun lobby has a numbered and extremely vocal and active populace, and can't really compare to the other side of the single payer fight, which is largely corporate and doesn't threaten votes in the same way.

 

To get a public option to pass you need to get people into the House and Senate that aren't there for a career and are willing to bite the bullet to make it pass. Which means you gotta run the right people in the right places and mobilize the vote behind those people.

Because, barring a turn in rhetoric and governing style from the Republicans, a public option will face all the end of the world rhetoric the ACA has faced, except it will be that times a thousand. Which means public sentiment towards it will turn sour FAST and people will lose their jobs.

In the long run it probably gains popularity, but senators and house reps will lose jobs over it.

 

Absolutely shameful. But it's also dishonest at best to bash the ACA over and over while ignoring that millions of people now can go to the hospital and afford the medications they need because of the ACA. There are very tangible positive effects the ACA has had.

 

Also I would say the ACA, which allowed states to literally explore any option they wanted to to expand coverage, did help states think about a single paper system in ways they probably haven't before.

That being said, I think individual states attempting single payer systems would be a disaster, depending on how it was built. There just isn't the taxpayer support in an individual state to run such an expensive program, IMO. The question I always had is what do states do about out of staters? People from New York, New Hampshire, Mass, etc...why wouldn't they flock to Vermont for health care services? And how would Vermont deal with that cost burden on its taxpayer base? It reminds me of state and city gun laws--they're kind of useless when people can just drive over the border to the next state and get their guns and extended clips.

 

I don't know why you guys don't like private healthcare. This month I paid my $210 monthly health insurance bill so that my insurance could cover $60 of the $270 in medical bills I accrued this month.

You just can't beat those kinds of savings.

 

Its not dishonest to acknowledge that the ACA and the private insurance industry it saves is nothing to be proud of.

 

I pay half that. It's the cheapest health insurance I've had in my self employed life. Been one reason I can actually be self employed.

 

Even if you eliminate the 11 million exchange enrollees, you're still talking about ~20 million more people signed up for Medicaid. Even if you want to be super pessimistic and say half of those were eligible before the expansion and just never signed up previously, that's still 10 million more people on a government payer system. Yeah, I'm pretty happy with that.

 

Literally just hired people from Breitbart. Holy shit.

 

Favorite part is when Trump blamed the media for "lying" about campaign issues and then ....