Avengers 4: Endgame (Joe & Anthony Russo April 26, 2019) Movie • Page 86

I'm not a film student, a film critic, or anything else like that... but after 11 years of emotional investment into this franchise, I left the theater feeling like a giant balloon of deflated emotion and I've been sitting with the film ever since - there's a lot I didn't agree with. But.

We can play semantics all we want about what makes films "good" or "successful art" but from where I'm sitting, Endgame was a beautiful conclusion to the Tony Stark story arch (which imo is exactly what it's purpose was - for the original avengers, especially him and Cap but really him since this whole thing started with him) that has left me IRL grieving a fictional character and feeling real, complex human emotions as a result of their storytelling, flawed or not. This movie felt like it was made for the fans who have been there since film 1 and for every misstep, there was obviously a lot of respect for that that went into making it.

I'm under no delusions that everyone has to feel the same way as me, but from where I'm sitting art and storytelling are successful if even one person feels that way after taking it in.

Also, haven't caught up on the thread past this page so my apologies if someone already said this but RDJ deserves an oscar nod for that performance.

Edit: if it wasn't clear, I deeply loved and appreciated this film, even with the things I'd have changed.

 

I'm 99% sure he says "hey Pep". but not giving him clear last lines in that scene was a pretty bold choice

 

I'm pretty sure that's what I heard him say too. It was fitting imo. So much of this has always been about him, but his (inevitable) moment of death really was about everybody else. Since that's who it was all for.

But yes, bold as hell! I'd also be okay with his last words being "Hey Pep" (or some variation of that) preceded only by "I am Iron Man." I like that the last two things he spoke about were what kept him alive this whole time.

Sorry y'all, as I mentioned I'm actually grieving a fictional character and as such, am prone to fits of sentiment.

 

I think they could have been alright with a 2 year time jump at most. 5 is a bit much. There would be more devastation at 2. At 5 I would think things were getting back to normal. And you wouldn’t have this weird thing where the films we thought were taking place in the present were really a few years in the past and now the present films will be 5 years in the future.

So next time you see a car or an iPhone it’s either outdated or some how a future version

 

I feel like they (mistakenly) believed the effect of a 2 year old Stark daughter wouldn't be as strong as a 5 year old one? Since I gotta ASSUME that story is why they picked 5. Maybe I just want there to have been a specific rationale behind it because yeah, agreed 100%.

 

yeah, agreed that either is perfect last words for the character. and they got to have it both ways with the recorded message on the IM helmet being the last, epic speech he physically couldn't say before he died. it's just good writing

 

In that spirit, I won't pretend I'm not quietly hoping deep down that they'll pursue the tony stark hologram (hey, it's comics canon!) in the future and that was maybe a hint *but* I also feel like I probably just need to let it go so the character ends on the highest of high notes

 

That’s really the only reason I thought of before posting that too. It makes perfect sense for that specific case but there could probably be another way around it. Plus some of Peters classmates could still be in high school

 

I liked this recap on that front

The Spider-Man: Far From Home trailer plays way differently after Endgame

but also having just rewatched the trailer... Fury and Peter were both at Stark's funeral, weren't they? So I'm unclear why they "meet" in Far From Home, unless that scene doesn't end up being in the movie (as Marvel does)

 

Just saw this, i am not ok yet.

The Tony death and funeral sequence was absolutely tears, but the biggest sad tears were Peter saying “we won mr stark”.

Also, tears of pure elation when the whole damn gang showed up again. When i heard falcon in cap’s ear, instant welling up.

Not gonna rank it or say what i think is better because that cheapens the afterglow, i’ll definitely see it again asap.

Loved it.

 

I need multiple viewings with this one for sure. I'm gonna take myself Friday morning, if not sooner.

 

I don't care if the film works as a standalone piece of art. All I care is that when Captain America was fighting Thanos, I was muttering encouragement under my breath like I was 6. "C'mon Cap! You can't go out like this!"

No amount of criticism or intellectual conversation about storytelling technique can compete with the pure, sincere emotion that I felt watching Endgame.

 

This is exactly where I am. There were laughs and there were tears and if I wasn’t in a cinema, I would have been up and cheering every god damn moment of that end fight. We’ve been watching some of these characters for 11 years and to see all of them together (well, nearly all of them...) and to win against one of the biggest foes cinema has seen? Can’t get better than that IMO.

Emotional connections to characters and a good, engaging story is all I need. It may be simplistic as hell, but it’s entertaining. Just enjoy the ride.

 

Good article about the fat shaming in this film.

 

The Two Towers and Return of the King would make absolutely no sense to someone who hadn’t seen the preceding films. Like, all the names and places and characters, and strange words in fantasy languages, and plot elements set up earlier on that pay off later, would all be gibberish without the way Fellowship expertly eases you into the story and setting. Films have been telling continuing storylines that require audiences to be caught up for as long as there have been film sequels. To suggest that what Marvel is doing is somehow flawed or an anomaly in film history is ridiculous. And to fault them for it is even more ridiculous. It’s just because these movies are about superheroes and based on comic books, rather than celebrated works of literature, that they get singled out.

 

Well, no, there are specific issues with how Marvel has told this specific overarching story, and the quote about people “showing up” is not complaining like they’ve never seen any other MCU movie, it’s literally describing how Infinity War utilizes most of its characters, but okay

And I’m as big a fan of superheroes as anyone. I’ve been reading and buying comics since I was 6. I still buy comics. I love these characters and like these movies. But I think the MCU has serious issues at the same time.

 

It looks like we were super close to getting the Living Tribunal during the battle on Titan.

AVENGERS: ENDGAME Writers Address All The Biggest Twists, Character Deaths, The Ending, And More - SPOILERS

 

Timelines never make sense w/ superhero media, lol. Doesn't really matter. It's all sliding time scales, etc. Like, the trilogy of Spider-Man films we're in the midst of is supposed to take place over the course of three consecutive school years, but they're gonna be released over the course of, what, six years? Assigning rigid dates to present day films for this kinda beast is never a great idea.

There's a good, like, 99% chance that RDJ returns eventually at least as an in-suit AI, if not occasional actual hologram. Probably not for a long time, but it feels pretty inevitable. Especially if they eventually introduce Ironheart (though I could also see another character like Rhodey getting that instead).

Ok, but also, no amount of pure emotion can compete with intellectual conversation. Because they're two separate things.

Not that they're completely disconnected or anything. Of course they can, & regularly do, bleed into each other. But, they're ultimately never in competition because they're not the same thing. They're able to coexist. They always have. Pitting them against each other is a pretty lame way to belittle others' different ways of engaging with something. (Especially when at least one of the people in that conversation [me] absolutely LOVED Endgame & is eagerly awaiting his next chance to see it.)

 

We saw in the trailers for Avengers: Infinity War that The Hulk was supposed to factor into the final battle but reshoots changed that and the Jade Giant was nowhere to be seen. Well, it turns out that the emergence of "Smart Hulk" was originally set to take place during the battle of Wakanda.

"There was a time when Banner became Smart Hulk in the first movie," Markus confirms. "It was a lot of fun, but it came at the wrong moment. It was an up, right when everyone else was down." Adds McFeely: "It happened in Wakanda. His arc was designed like, I’m not getting along with the Hulk, the Hulk won’t come out. And then they compromise and become Smart Hulk."

That's not surprising, but man, it was such a mistake. Makes no sense to have a running thread throughout Infinity War about Hulk hiding, going back to it w/out any payoff, & then have the payoff happen off camera.

Not that I wanted that in Endgame; for the film that one was, I don't give a crap about explanations & just wanna move on, lol. But, in the context of Infinity War... If they didn't want him to Hulk out there, they needed to do some rewrites & reshoots to cut that whole recurring bit out.

Though, I don't buy that it didn't fit. Just make him Hulk out during the sequence where Thor shows up w/ Stormbreaker.

 

I was responding to the general conversation in here, not that review, which was really very bad and not worth mentioning any further in my opinion.

 

Well the general conversation is missing the point the critique was making, which was not that anyone who has never seen an MCU movie before should be able to watch Infinity War and understand everything and get everything out of it, but that the movie uses extreme shorthand, and in some cases not even that, to handle characters.

Think the review is bad all you want, but the conversation has been missing what he was actually saying. Lord of the Rings and Star Wars dramatize character psychologies even in their sequels, in Infinity War, characters literally just show up.

 

That couldn’t be more incorrect but opinions are funny like that I guess.

 

Saw it a 3rd time yesterday. The movie still didn’t seem 3 hours even though I knew everything that would happen. The woman behind me also cried non-stop from the moment Tony died to the end credits.

 

One thing I've been thinking about... I don't know where it came from, but wasn't there a statement or quote from somewhere a little while back that a greater threat would be alluded to in Endgame? To be honest I'm really glad it didn't happen, but I was reminded of that recently while talking about the movie.

 

Yeah I mean the scale of conflict this world needs to kind of reset for a while now. So it can escalate again over the next few years. Looking forward to Far From Home doing that for sure.