Avengers 4: Endgame (Joe & Anthony Russo April 26, 2019) Movie • Page 84

@CobraKidJon what didn't you like

 

You can watch Return of the Jedi without seeing New Hope I'm guessing, The Avengers movies are just like people clapping when each alien at the cantina shows up

Not that the Russo movies are bad but Guardians and Captain Marvel working as standalone films or what Taika did with Thor is much better and cooler

 

I’ll reread it, I trust your judgement. Maybe I jumped to conclusions

 

I, for one, love 12 Angry Men.

I do not, however, like 1-11 in the Angry Men saga.

 

The full context of the quote in the tweet is more than fair

He’s literally just talking about the structure of the plot, not commenting on it’s quality

 

is this a king john joke

 

That depends, was it good?

 

It's a well-written review. I've always thought that Infinity War being built upon the foundation of however many previous films rather than operating as a standalone experience was more of a miracle of filmmaking than anything else, especially considering how well that movie works. Same goes for Endgame, even more so.

 

Movies of this scale don't really exist outside of IW and Endgame. They're sort of unique in that they're playing with so many toys from other films. I personally kind of think its old fashioned to insist that every film has to work as a standalone experience, especially when you see the success that these movies have had. Endgame especially can only work if people have seen the other films buy and large, i wont reccommend it to my friends who arent like at least semi invested in the MCU. Its fine to talk about and debate if thats ok but thats my take.

 

Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, and Harry Potter movies, among plenty of other franchises, tell contained singular stories within a larger saga. Infinity War ends the story it’s telling halfway through, I think it’s a fair distinction.

 

I thought IW ended right where it should have. IW was Thanos' story, and it ended when he accomplished his goal. Endgame was more the story of the core Avengers.

 

I'd argue that IW works as a stand alone, I took my GF at the time who had seen, idk, max 2 mcu movies and she still really enjoyed it. Endgame I think is a tougher sell since its actively throwing you back into events from previous films and paying off a ton of things collected over the 22 films

 

IW is Thanos' movie, they dont really set him up at all in the other movies so they had to spend so much of it introducing his character and telling his story.

 

I just so completely disagree with that take. You can’t apply conventional rules to the MCU because nothing like this has ever been attempted.

 

lol that’s not true

 

Scale-wise this is the largest a shared cinematic universe has ever been attempted, yes. And financially it’s a complete and total success. But it’s not the only decade spanning film saga/shared universe

 

With Marvel's announcements and production, it was clear that Infinity War and Endgame were connected. They just didn't want to call it Infinity War Part 1/Part 2 to try to give more feeling and higher stakes to the losses in Infinity War.

LOTR, Harry Potter and Star Wars are just the same. Ending with Sam/Frodo heading off while others are climbing a mountain? Ending with Han Solo frozen in carbonite? Ending with Voldemort stealing the Elder Wand? They're all continuing stories.

 

But, like... It really should. And, can. Good writers can make it work.

Like, as a comic book fan... Individual issues used to be so good at this (though decompressed storytelling has hurt the value of single issues for some titles). An old Marvel editor used to make a big deal out of how every comic could be someone's first.

And, while writing comics w/ the eventual collection in mind has tragically hurt that... Still, in the era of trades & constant relaunches, writers at least strive to make sure their titles work alone. Every time a new writer starts a new run on, say, Amazing Spider-Man or Uncanny X-Men, they work to honor the past while still trying to maintain accessibility (w/ varying levels of success). And, some writers DO thankfully still work to make every single issue a satisfying standalone experience.

A talented writer can make it work. It's lazy writing to not at least strive for that. Especially when you have over 20 films spanning over a decade. Blockbusters shouldn't require homework.

 

You totally can. But you just don’t stop with them. You do view it through other contexts as well. But there’s no reason why you can’t view it through the lens of a movie that stands on its own.

 

Infinity War IS Thanos’ movie and it’s a complete film based on that but the review is correct regarding the other characters.

 

And, Fellowship of the Ring 100% works as a standalone film in a way that I don't think Infinity War does. You can point towards an unrealized deeper resolution down the road while still making your film satisfying.

 

Yeah, but whole point or the MCU is to get you to see as many of the movies as you can. You can disagree fundamentally on whether or not you think Endgame has the merits of a good film, but I don’t think anyone has the right to say what is and isn’t a film on the basis of “do I need to see the others to get it”, especially when that’s exactly what they are going for.

 

An overarching story, yes. But each film in those series focuses on a smaller story that resolves.

I’m not even saying it makes Infinity War bad, but it does not resolve within Infinity War, which I think attempts just as much to be an Avengers story

 

You disagreed with me and agreed with me at the same time. My point is to expect the culmination of 22 movies to make 100% sense for someone who hasn’t seen the prior movies is wildly unrealistic. Like...did they really need to add a flashback as to why tony and cap are beefing? If they made endgame to be fine for someone coming in fresh it’d be like 800 hours long lol