Accountability in Music • Page 248

So I’m only posting this cuz of what people have said in the past but jake from abr is featured on the new as I lay dying song and Tim had him over to his studio at his house to do his vocals. So with this being out there dose this mean abr will now be boycotted and blacklisted by fans or is it only if they go on tour together they get boycotted and blacklisted cuz I know the majority of this forum has strong hate for Tim and anyone or any band that associates themselves with aild

 

In this particular subscene of metalcore, fans don't give a flying fuck about this story and more generally about accountability. This will not impact August Burns Red at all.

 

Your concern seems to come from a very genuine place, Cmoney86. Please, continue, I wanna hear more about this "blacklist".

 

Was thinking about going to that ABR anniversary tour but yeah, he wants to support a piece of shit that tried to get his wife killed so I'm out

 

I loved AILD prior to Tim trying to get his wife murdered. I was also a big fan of ABR.

Fuck AILD and fuck ABR. It's that simple.

 

Yeahh I wanna go to that for Silverstein but luckily I should be on the guestlist so I won't have to pay for a ticket, I can buy some 'Stein merch to support them and leave after their set.

 

Metalcore bands that complain about the genre not getting respected by the mainstream that tour/do songs with someone that tried to kill their wife. Laughable.

 

I think the big thing with ABR is the whole Christian forgiveness thing, so this is kind of a huge bummer for me because I've been an ABR fan since high school. I was also a fan of AILD up until the whole "dude tried to get someone to murder his wife thing" and I had no problem dropping them from my listening rotation.

But I definitely, definitely think that forgiveness/redemption thing is what's factoring into this and why Jake made the decision to guest on an AILD song. The guys of ABR are extremely Christian, to the point where I think Matt Greiner (their drummer) did some fundraisers and gear selling for a crisis pregnancy center in his hometown.

 

If they're more interested in forgiveness for the abuser than resources and empowerment for his victim then I know all I need to to help me decide that they're not worth my time.

 

Hey violet has a bad member too he was my least fav member anyway

 

There's a thread about Iain

 

Ye

yep that’s in one of the two I posted

 

Wait is it lain or iain??

Edit: oh the l is an I. How have I never noticed that they look the same?? How do u pronounce Iain? Anyway, continue

 

Yeah their beliefs clearly don't mean shit to them if they're caping for a guy who tried to have his wife killed and now expects to return to his normal life because he's 'sorry' or whatever

 

Saw that earlier. Who's the band so I can avoid the fuck out of them??

 

Agreed. Like what @K0ta said, if they were "interested in forgiveness for the abuser than resources and empowerment for his victim then I know all I need to to help me decide that they're not worth my time."

It's a shame, but if they're not willing to provide resources and empowerment for folks, I'm perfectly willing to drop them from my listening rotation.

 

Don’t really know where else to post this, but Julien Baker thanked Cam Boucher for his contribution to her two new songs on her instagram, which really bums me out.

 

Care to refresh on who that is? Sorry all the names run together for me sometimes

 

The singer from Sorority Noise/Old Gray.
Sorority Noise's Cameron Boucher Responds to Sexual Assault Accusation
Sorority Noise's Cam Boucher Issues New Statement on Rape Allegation

 

She edited the post to remove him. FYI

 

What did it say before?

 

Some interesting stories have come out in the last few days about some supposed new development in the R. Kelly criminal investigation that's worth being aware of.

Here's a story from Complex, run on Yahoo Entertainment, which is worth reading at least if you aren't familiar with this part of the story: R. Kelly's Associates Targeted in Multiple Sex Trafficking Investigations

The story is interesting on a number of levels. I wanted to call attention to the Complex writeup because I've never seen a more inappropriate use in modern times of the word "courtship" than in this sentence from the article: ""Prosecutors allegedly believe Kelly's associates aided in his harboring and courtship of underaged women." The phrasing comes directly from the April 14th Complex article, which I found at this link: R. Kelly's Associates Targeted in Multiple Sex Trafficking Investigations The Complex article references a TMZ article Feds Turn Up Heat on R. Kelly in Illinois Over Alleged Sex Trafficking which thankfully didn't use the word "courtship" at least in the story as posted now, and TMZ does reference a wide range of sources for their story.

I know the Complex story may have been written by some vastly underpaid contact worker who may not even themselves think that R. Kelly "courted" most of the underaged women who were allegedly involved. Some of the women/girls that were involved may have believed that they were consensual but the allegations against R Kelly don't likely involved anything reasonably considered consensual. I sent an email to the "info" email listed on the contact us page for Complex asking them to at least correct this inappropriate use of that word and ask Yahoo to correct it as well. If all they can do is simply call this "sex trafficing allegations" like the mainstream press does that'll be ok with me I suppose.

This article aside, it's interesting that there have been many stories recently that have emphasized that the Chicago police are putting such a high, time-sensitive priority on investigating sex trafficing charges. The new stories I've seen in the last few days makes it sound like this is something they've only been looking into recently, but I know the information they are working with must have changed in recent months with the investigation that grew after the Lifetime documentary aired a few months ago. Sex trafficing charges are very different from assault charges, it's more than even allegations of prostitution, if you google "sex trafficing" you get phrasing like "sexual exploitation, including sexual slavery".

The problem I see with this is that the kind of abuse that R Kelly likely engaged in didn't involve the woman / girl in question being paid or compensated in any way beyond what a guest at a concert, VIP or otherwise, might have gotten -- like a free ticket or an invitation to go backstage or meet R Kelly after the show, and I think some sort of compensation to someone has to be involved for sex trafficing to possibly involved. That compensation needn't go to the victim, of course, it's obvious it wouldn't in case of literal slavery.

Also, unlike the more typical victim of sex trafficing, the victims in in these cases might have thought at the time that they enthusiastically wanted to meet him and do whatever they did, or whatever he wanted to do at least at the time. which makes it less likely for them to even think to tell a friend that they were victimized, much less see themselves as a sex assault or trafficing victim. I know there's a vast difference in power and authority between a star like R. Kelly and a likely 17-or-so year old fan or protege, but I think this kind of abuse is also very different than what legal professionals think is involved with sex trafficing.

The only people I could see possibly facing sex trafficing charges aside from R Kelly himself are people in his staff who were paid for their work and likely were involved in facilitating or managing the literal traffic of very young women who R Kelly wanted to see and in turn the very young women who at least thought they wanted to see him. It's possible that the net of "associates" the authorities are out to investigate goes further than R Kelly's staff, but it must at least include his staff, I think. If charges can be brought against his staff or any associates for sex trafficing or acting in some sort of conspiracy involving sex trafficing this may have a much bigger impact on the music scene than all of the charges alleged (and documentaries aired, etc) to date involving R Kelly alone.

People like R Kelly come and go, and I find it telling that this attempt to hold him criminally responsible is coming at a time following a decline in his career and financial status that seems to me to have been going on for a long time. That became pathtically obvious, I think, when he released a Christmas album a few years ago. I'd say we should be thankful he didn't dress up as Santa Claus, but I can't be sure that won't come out as part of the allegations. But the music industry infrastructure that supported him and his cronies (allegedly) sexually abusing and exploiting others is perennial. If this investigation can help can change that, even if it doens't result in new criminal charges, it'll make history.

 

My Bars of Gold album came with a “surprise” poster. It was Better Off. Lame, trashed it immediately