Accountability in Music • Page 215

I have so much respect for her. She really has done the work over and over again SO WE NEED TO FUCKING LISTEN!!! It always falls on the victims to have to confront their own trauma to make themselves heard - she says she tried to get so many people around him to listen, and they just didn't. Like I said earlier in this thread, this should come as a surprise to absolutely no one, and people like this continue to just go on unscathed, furthering abuse on others and then try to act like they're a victim? Or like an apology is gonna cut it? This is why I get so mad when people try to say they can separate the art from the artist or that men who abuse should get second chances. That people bend over backwards to find a way to absolve the abuser over the abused is telling of exactly how women are seen to these people. Read Georgia's statement and tell me you think this guy deserves a fucking thing, please I'd love to hear the rationale.

I am just so so angry for her and feel so frustrated that those who are traumatized must not only carry the burden of that trauma but the trauma of being victimized over opening their mouths about it.

 

Pinegrove derailed at the height of #MeToo. Now the band wants to sing to its skeptics.

I rolled my eyes through that entire article until the last paragraph:

 

This kind of reminds me of a conversation I had years ago in a TSSF thread- when you write a song about your "bad break up" you may only intend it to be about one person and not wholly misogynist, but you're effectively letting a whole room of people in on your personal life and telling them what to say about your ex. So much emotional abuse is let go under the guise of "it was just a bad break up" but when men do what Wil did and attempt to name and shame women they have victimized, it absolutely compromises women's safety and becomes another tool of oppression. How can Georgia or any woman feel safe in their community when someone is out there essentially telling people to go after her because his pain demands to be felt and is more important than her living a peaceful life?

It's like @K0ta said, you can't separate the art from the artist when the art is a diary and a missive against someone. It has real consequences. Even if no one ever specifically went after Georgia, hundreds and hundreds of people have seen Wil perform and heard these songs. I don't know have a tidy solution for it, but it's awful that so many people really believe this behavior exists in a vacuum and that it's as simple as exorcising a demon through song and no one ever suffers for it because it's just "art."

 

That article is behind a paywall.

Speaking of a band that tries to disappear and lay low until they can come back like nothing happened.

 

"Things were said that have led to regret, things that were angry and mean."

Man fuck that. Things were not said. *You* said things. Cut the intentional passive voice shit and take responsibility.

 

And this is ultimately it, isn't it? The value that a man's voice has over that of a woman. That a man can push their abuse veiled as pain under the guise of art and after being called out for it then be told that redemption is deserved and warranted. They can both use that "art" as a tool to abuse further and then invalidate the abused because they've controlled the narrative. The music is simultaneously a tool of oppression and a weapon to wield against anybody that should call them out - look at Pinegrove, strolling back into the scene like nothing happened. Because they make music that people enjoy they simply get to come right back in. And in the case of Wil his music is the act of aggression itself.

I feel it's impossible to listen to the music put out by an abuser and not be in some way validating the message behind it. I mean it's as you say; it is a form of oppression, cleverly veiled and packaged pretty and served up in a way that gets people's buy in. And with this music they gain power and privilege which puts them in positions to further abuse in other ways, and perpetuates a cycle that both grants them validation from fans of their music (essentially a public acceptance of said abuse) and grants them leverage over the abused because they have the platform.

 

Put this fucker straight into the trash

 

Suffer is an especially gross song knowing all of this. Very happy to never listen to this band’s music again.

 

I know this isn't the platform for me to have this discussion but: even though I haven't read the emails, and have no idea who the fuck Wil Wagner is, a lot of what people are saying about what happened reminds me of a relationship I was in a few years ago and I feel like maybe some of y'all could give me advice:

I had an on-and-off friendship following what I had hoped would be an amicable break-up with a romantic partner. As I understood it, the separation was due to the nature of my partner's hostile family situation & mental health issues getting in the way of our ability see each other. We tried to maintain a friendship despite this person's abusive family situation getting in the way, and in the aftermath there was anger and toxicity. This person would talk about how they fell out of love with me and gave up hope on us working, just to come back in my life later (several times) and try to be my friend. In these brief periods of reconnection I became bitter, angry, and jealous due to the taunting nature of their description of their roamantic-sexual situation compared to mine, and they'd only talk to me to complain about their family life and relationship issues, but then ignore me when I reached out. I didn't act admirably as I fueled the fire in these situations often by complaining about how the other person's actions hurt me and placing that blame on them instead of just leaving it alone in the first place. The last time I had communication with this person it was in the aftermath of me acting vindictively by telling this person's parents how this person was treating me, even though in hindsight I overshared and could've hurt this person. Fortunately in the intervening time I've gone to therapy to heal and find a way to make peace with that situation and this person.

In that time the only way I could find happiness or peace would be to write about it, and although I'd never attack this person publicly, I'm starting to wonder if I should or shouldn't release these songs. They're incredibly personal, but I never personally try to paint this person in a negative light, but I understand that from my position of power as someone with masculine gender identity, it could come off that way. If anyone has any advice on that front, I'd appreciate it. My DM's are open.

 

Such an important read from the NY Times, "It’s Not That Men Don’t Know What Consent Is." Link should get you past the paywall: Outline - Read & annotate without distractions

"Young men’s ability to understand sexual refusal has been shown to be remarkably sophisticated and subtle, regardless of whether the word “no” is actually uttered; that renders dubious the common defense that they “can’t tell” or “aren’t mind readers.” What’s more, where “yes” is concerned, guys seem downright clairvoyant: They routinely over-perceive a woman’s interest in having sex with them, even more so if the men have been drinking."

 

I found this to be particularly interesting in that article:

Young men still too often learn to prioritize their pleasure over women’s feelings, to interpret a partner’s behavior through the lens of their own wishes. Their claims of “miscommunication,” Ms. Bedera concluded in her research on college men, may actually be part of “an expectation that they control both partners’ narratives about desire and consent.”

All of which would indicate that in these high-profile cases, women’s accusations are inherently more credible than male denial, regardless of how vehement that denial may be.

 

hey so uh Hutch Harris (ex-The Thermals) is apparently a paedophile

he (on band account and his own account @instantanxiety) has been blocking people who so much as like tweets related to this situation that he's tagged in

his ex-band and personal accounts are on private, and he won't engage anyone who's called him out. very good look obviously

 

Saw this bubbling up a few weeks ago

Just a terrible look from the dude jfc

 

"Comments have been turned off out of respect to all involved. More darkness never brings light."


..........what

 

I fixed it!

 

Survivors speaking of their experiences and adding to the accusations and discussion = darkness apparently lmao

 

Morrissey details new covers album featuring members of Green Day, Broken Social Scene, and Grizzly Bear

and for those wondering why I'm posting that here, well... have you seen the shit he has said? Why are these alt-rock musicians suddenly lining up behind Morrissey?

 

"Some true believers insist that Morrissey is more a provocateur than an outright racist."

 

I cannot understand why people are so crazy for Morrissey in the first place. He seems like the worst type of person in every regard.

 

because the band he was in made some records before splitting because they all hated each other and he's had to make racist, inflammatory statements in order to remain relevant because he's released solo records for decades to increasingly diminishing returns

and people seem to lap it up for some dumb fucking reason

 

All I know about Morrissey is that his name is familiar. Couldn't tell you a single thing about him, a single song he's ever done, or even what kind of music he typically does. Him seemingly being an asshole on top of that makes my curiosity in him shrink even more. idgaf

 

That girl who didn’t appreciate Brand New or Morrissey was ahead of her time

 

How can you be here so much and not know him at all? How is that possible???


It sucks that he so often gets a pass for being a completely awful person. It’s not like he even tries to hide it.

 

Blink182Bouncer I don't know anything about your previous relationship or the songs in question (and I dont think I need to) but I have a few suggestions to make.

One, if you are still working on the songs the woman in question won't likely appreciate references to her that would identify her personally, so the more you can make changes that anonymize or make it appear like the songs could be about one of many relationships the better.

Two, you surely wouldn't want to release the songs publically, or maybe even draw attention to them among all of the mutual friends you have in common with her if she wouldn't want you to, so you may want to speak with friends, especially some trusted mutual friends who could listen to the songs, talk with you about them, and give you feedback. If they think she wouldn't mind the songs being released, have one of them speak with her about this. I'd think of this as asking her permission, it doesn't need to be anything formal, but if she doesn't mind speaking with mutual friends about what you are doing and giving them and then you feedback that would be one way to get towards an answer or at least feedback from her on what you've been doing.

And three, I also don't really know what you mean by "release" -- if it's just putting them on social media pages set to share only with friends and not public, that might be less of an issue, but if you were thinking of releasing them on a label and opening Coachella with them that's another matter. I will assume the latter isn't the case. :) If you have more general questions along these lines, feel free to post them here.

 

God, a sarcastic cover of this would be beautiful. That line is perfect self parody now.