Avengers: Infinity War (Joe & Anthony Russo, April 27, 2018) Movie • Page 122

I feel like we'll get a version of Young Avengers before Champions, but I still expect a version of Champions eventually. Depends on how they wanna approach young characters, especially since it's a lot harder to stop movie characters from aging than comic characters.

When it comes to semi-grounded characters getting movies, I'd personally wanna see Shang-Chi more than Moon Knight, tbh. Especially since I'd also wanna see Shang-Chi on the Avengers. Though, a Moon Knight film w/ Declan Shalvey inspired costume design would still rule.

Weirdworld has gotta be a film. Whether they do the Aaron run or Humphries run. Either one that was drawn by Del Mundo. (Though, yeah, working that Black Knight material into that world would be cool, too.) Great standalone world for a big budget film with the right director (DuVernay? Waititi?) to play in.

 

If Nextwave happened, I'd want it to be R-rated. Could be a Deadpool-esque film.

 

A quality meme from Reddit

 

Does anyone else get a new look at the consequences of Civil War after watching this movie? I think Thanos being able to get all of the stones is something that is a direct result of Civil War. If the entire group was able to go to the Sanctum after Banner arrived there and then went to Wakanda with Strange they would have been able to hold off Thanos’ army until the Stone was out of Vision’s head.



Also, why did Nebula want the Guardians to go to Titan? She knew Thanos was going to Vormir and wasn’t aware of the time stone heading to Titan.

 

I enjoyed the movie, but this is a pretty great critique of it:

 

I almost gave up pretty quickly 'cause the voiceover paired with random footage reminded me of bad YouTube video essays, but I vaguely remembered Lindsay Ellis mentioning this channel positively once, and I wanted to see a good critique (as someone with complicated feelings about the film).

There were bits in here I didn't necessarily like. The brief detour to break down the logic of Thanos' plan was pointless because characters, whether the protagonist or antagonist, don't have to be logical. Quickly mentioned this recently in the Last Jedi thread. If it feels emotionally real, who cares how much *logic* the decisions feel from the outside? The same with Peter Quill snapping on Thanos over Gamora (which I maintain as a great moment, as much as I otherwise agree with how this film mishandled Peter and Gamora). Oh, and I disagree with his dig at Proxima Midnight; I love the whole Black Order as they were depicted onscreen.

Complaints aside, the core idea of how this film dealt with trauma and abuse is so true, especially when compared to the brilliant, under appreciated Guardians 2. In a way, this used heavy realities for irresponsible, surface level edge the same way Man of Steel did with 9/11 imagery. I maintain that Infinity War is much better because it has characters I actually care about, as well as a far better sense of colorful comic book fun, but that fundamental failing is basically the same for both films. It's also similar in that way to Mark Millar's overrated Marvel work, particularly Civil War, and also DC's garbage Identity Crisis story. I have no problem with dark stories and don't think they need to be high art making profound statements to justify it, but you do need to at least do better than this.

I think my biggest issue, which I remember thinking when I first saw the movie before having an opinion besides "this was huge and fun," is the way they framed Thanos' feelings towards Gamora as love without dealing with it. This again is especially bad when contrasted with how perfectly Guardians 2 nailed Gamora and Nebula's dynamic as survivors of an abusive home. Thanos believing that he loves Gamora works, as does Gamora crying when she thinks Thanos is dead. Life is complex enough for that nuance. But, Thanos' affection being enough to get a magical Stone, and his final vision where he says he gave up "everything"? I dunno. I think it can work if you accept that the sacrifice can be an object you "love," since Thanos sure as heck doesn't view Gamora as a person. But, it's pretty irresponsible to show this without putting a more overt commentary within this specific film's text, especially since the film is expressing trying to make this abusive father the "sympathetic" protagonist. It's... Rough. Yeah.

I maintain that better motivations would've helped a ton, too. Like, hey, he's abusive and clearly the villain, but we also get to have complicated feelings about him because he's also... Genocidal? Again, I do NOT care about the logic of his plan, but on an emotional, narrative level, there's no way to ethically sympathize with him. We already established why Gamora isn't the in to relating to him (unless we relate to abusers), and now we also don't relate through his motives (unless we relate to Nazis).

Thanos should've been driven by a more human emotion. Maybe the comics' motivation of love could've been used with some streamlining, though if he's gonna be both an abusive father and entitled suitor, there's still that burden of not framing that as what's supposed to humanize the villain. As I've previously suggested, I'm still a proponent of vengeance as a motive. Have the destruction of Titan not be something he sought, but rather something that he fought. Bring in the cosmic entities from the comics, and make this a crusade against them. That way we have that human connection to him while still clearly understanding him to be evil (akin to someone like Killmonger or more villainous takes on Magneto).

Oops, this post got long. I have stuff I need to do today. Um.

I like this movie. I find much of this movie deeply successful and impressive. I think it has some pretty significant missteps that wouldn't have been impossible to fix while keeping the basic structure and everything that worked. I don't know how often I'll want to watch this five years from now. Here's hoping Avengers 4 takes this film's table setting and tells a story that will have personal lasting value (like Captain America: Civil War thus far does).

 

I pretty much agree with everything you laid out here. I also don't care much about the logic behind Thanos's plan (I was disappointed that the video even talked about it). But the critique of how it handles abusive relationships is spot on. Especially (as you mentioned) in comparison to Guardians 2.

 

good post @Tim
i discovered FilmJoy/Movies With Mikey a little while ago and i love all his content but i disagree with most of his take in that one. i do agree with the whole bit about the handling of Thanos/Gamora's relationship / the way it frames their (very much) abusive relationship tho

 

Man Mark Ruffalo is horrible in this. What the hell happened

 

His acting is terrible in this and Ragnarok (maybe the other Avengers movies, I don't even remember.) I like his character enough, but I don't know what happened to him.

 

Survivor’s guilt (taken from Russo bros instagram). Rocket playing Groot’s game is a downer. It would be interesting, but depressing, if they have Tony go through the “demon in a bottle” arc due to Peter dying.

 

The scene in Wakanda where he's trying to get hulk to come out was pretty bad, I find his performances are worsening as the movies go on.

 

I really thought he was good in Thor 3, but yeah in this one he was kinda off. I'm glad it's just not me that thought his acting was not on point this movie.

His "You guys are so screwed now!" was really off and attempted to ruin the best moment of the movie, Thor arriving in Wakanda with Rocket and Groot.

 

That line is what prompted me to post about his acting.

 

Honestly I never thought Ruffalo was a good Banner, he's usually so on the side it hasn't been too much of an issue for me, but yeah IW was the worst for sure.

 

So I've been on a huge Marvel kick recently. Just wrapped up watching all of the movies in order. What a journey.

I'd like to dive into some comics. Was there a thread with recommended comics already? If not, anyone want to make some recs?

 

i've liked Ruffalo as Banner for most of his time, but his performance in IW was really bad i'd agree
maybe he was secretly kidnapped and replaced by a Skrull and that's why he's acting so different. y'know, just spitballing.

 

The recs for this movie (and every one released since Logan) were edited into the first post of the thread for easy access. Everyone is also always welcome to ask for recs from the main Comic Book thread!

 

Awesome, thanks!

 

I hate all these clickbait articles coming out now with titles like "this new avengers theory will blow your mind!"

 

“This one scene in Infinity War you completely missed that will change everything!”

 

Lol exactly!

 

“The new theories that will change your mind on Infinity War forever”

Ends up being theories that some fan made a day after the film was released.

 

They also turn out to be theories that have been debunked or widely know already.

Funny how these articles have coincided with the summer holidays...

 

I actually do like this theory.

Did Loki Disguise Himself as the Hulk in INFINITY WAR? | Nerdist