Accountability in Music • Page 128

Noooo t pain. I find him so over the top and endearing usually

 

nicole, the abusive ex member of TWIABP that exposed cam boucher as a rapist without the victim's permission, is now selling sorority noise test presses on her label's webpage for 100 bucks

that's some sick, disgusting sort of irony there

 

His victim

 

i don't know why he thinks this is like, a revolutionary take. we know that theres an epidemic with mens violent misogyny, and frequently are victims to it. thats the problem.

 

because OF COURSE she is

 

People are now speculating XXX has faked his own death on twitter to advertise the single he was bringing out which was apparently called...

No Pulse

 

if by some insane chance that turns out to be true, i will lose my fucking mind

 

Didn’t the cops confirm he was dead though?

 

Yeah, I'm going to go with an official police report over some teens on Twitter.

 

Do we know of any suspects that could have been involved ? It was obviously a scum bag that killed another scum bag.

 

Y’all are so quick to judge, yeah the shooter made some mistakes but he’s such a positive person and is working on making a change, someone who can impact so many peoples lives in a positive way smh

 

l o fucking l

 

These assholes are just as gross.

 

From today's New York Times, published as Warped kicks off for the summer. It's worth reading in full, today, for those who can still handle "longform." There's certain to be many articles like this to follow this summer, may as well get familiar with the standard they'll try to match:

‘It Was 11 Guys on a Bus, and Then Me’: Women on the Warped Tour
As the traveling punk-rock extravaganza begins its final full cross-country run, the women who performed on the male-dominated festival tell their stories.
By Steve Knopper | June 21, 2018
‘It Was 11 Guys on a Bus, and Then Me’: Women on the Warped Tour

It's a #MeToo, but it's a very different kind of #MeToo.

It's a #MeToo but I was able to handle it for the most part. A #MeToo but it wasn't as bad as you may have heard. #MeToo, but I was willing to "lean in" and it got better. It got a lot better if you didn't complain about anything related to anyone else on the tour.

Yes, the women who performed on the male-dominated festival tell their stories. They tell their stories, and their stories will be retold, in every instance in ways that the festival and all benefit from it would want their stories told.

You get to hear from the women who "made it," but it's worth noting there are none of the voices, either in the first person, the second person, or in any way from or about those who didn't make it.

Near the end of this very long article there is one mention of a band's name with an account of, um, inappropriate behavior:

"THEO KOGAN, 48, OF LUNACHICKS A huge portion of the Blink-182 guys’ audience was teenage girls, and it was an all-ages show and they would say [expletive] like, “Throw us your bras!” I was going onstage and saying, “Hey, girls, don’t do anything those guys tell you!”"

I suppose the stage Theo went on was her own stage, where she took some of her 20 minutes or so set to say that. I also don't recall any social or political "statement" ever (ever) coming from the Lunachicks about anything, including Blink-182 performances or fan misbehavior. They don't have to do that to make good music, have fun, and make some kind of a statement just by performing and being women, but I just don't recall anything they said publically that was in any way activist/feminist/etc, in particular anything a concertgoer would have even understood as connected to Blink-182. The quote above is pretty ambiguous.

The whole article has a tone that sounds like it was outlined with talking points from Warped Tour's publicist, which is now Warped Tour itself (they no longer outsource that to MSO) tried to send the New York Times a band that said something about Blink-182, and the best they could come up with is the statement above from Theo. I know it may sound like I'm calling out Theo, but I'm not, any more than any of the other women in this article, but given Warped's 20+ year showcase of laddie misadventure it's amazing that this -- and only this -- gets mentioned waaay down near the end of the article.

I don't think recall Blink saying "bras" though, I think they were a lot cruder than that, but a more direct quote wouldn't come across as nostalgic. It's good to hear Theo say she said something, though, however long ago that was. This is the first I heard of a band saying anything critical about how Blink acted back then, near the peak of their younger years on tour. I don't recall any band making a point of encouraging women to throw bras at them except All Time Low, and since they haven't given up on that I'm not surprised it wasn't mentioned in the article (or been criticized by any other artist I know of).

I'm not sure I would have wanted Theo to interrupt Blink-182's set asking underage girls to flash them onstage, but it's worth noting how there was no other criticism of that on the tour, any more than there was any criticism of similar misconduct and worse since then during the tour from or about any other band since then except from artists and bands who are on their way out the door anyway on the last day or only day of the tour. That's what happened with the Dickies on their last day of the tour last year, or when Jake McElfresh played his one and only date in Nashville in 2015.

Once a band has left, or if they are in the process of leaving, there's noticably less of an issue complaining about their act. It sometimes it seems like that kind calling out once they are out (or going out) the door is even encouraged, maybe as a way to better manage dissent?

 

There's no need to be so condescending. We can all "still handle longform." Please keep in mind that of course there wasn't as much pushback 20 years ago- feminists have made great strides in that time frame to make it safer for women to speak up. It's great that Theo felt able to say something then, but the blame is not on women trying to make their living- it's on men for creating and upholding a toxic culture that threatened us.

 

Even The Guardian are reporting on the Wil Francis/Control thing.

Multiple women accuse emo musician William Control of running 'sex cult'

 

I wasn't intending to be condescending, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. It's unusual to find longform articles like these, though, nearly all are written much shorter but usually in pretty much the same way as this one, as near-paraphrases of press releases and the same statements told over and over. The quote from Theo of the Lunachicks is no exception. I was at Warped for some shows at that time and saw some of their set, and I'm a little familar with the Lunachicks. If I had been in the audience and heard her say that I wouldn't have been able to tell from the quote that she was even talking about Blink-182.

I disagree though with what you wrote here:

Kayla, Blink-182 and other "artists" called from their stage on Warped Tour and elsewhere for underage women to flash them for several years after Woodstock 1999. Blink-182, other pop-punk and emo bands, and what at the time was called "Nu-Metal" got pushback of a kind the music scene haven't seen since -- but pushback came from groups and people outside of Warped Tour, not from any band or group at Warped Tour iteself.

Similar criticism was levied at Limp Bizkit, a nu-metal band with a very different style of music but a similar kind of misogyny. It was pointed out at the time that it was all the more inappropriate for Blink-182 and other bands to do so in the wake of Woodstock 1999, and it didn't make any difference to them.

I could write more about how that was handled but I don't know how much more detail is needed. That kind of behavior continued to occur at festivals and on smaller tours for years after Woodstock 1999, and still continues today at metal festivals and similar events on a smaller scale than Warped and the biggest of today's destination festivals. Describing what happened in response to that kind of exploitation and abuse after Woodstock 1999 as "pushback" though would be an understatement. It was militant.

There wasn't any indication that pushback was coming from within Warped Tour or from bands on the tour, though, it came from outside. Warped Tour would want everyone to know though there was a push forward to put women in positions of authority in organizing tours and events. At Warped and some other festivals I remember from the time we increasingly saw more women in charge, and beginning soon after Woodstock 1999 we saw a majority of women at Warped visibly put in charge of production and promotion. (incidentally, these were the same women who were in charge before, in the late 90s from what I remember from CAA, and women were promently involved in the concourse and nonprofit part of Lollapalooza, from what I saw and my mom has told me (she worked there in the mid-90s).

I didn't and don't think that putting women in more visible positions of authority with Warped Tour was progress for the fans and larger community they didn't have contact with directly. If anyone does and wants to collaborate on something like a "Cliff Notes" to help someone get an A in a class this fall at the USC Thornton School of Music (https://music.usc.edu/kevin-lyman) they might want to detail pros and cons for why it did. In short, it helped them and their immediate circle of contacts and the people they came in touch with. Beyond that, I don't think the fact they were women or not made a difference in what bands were doing onstage and off, and fans as well, and I think you'll see why, because their behavior was any different before or after. It made no difference to Blink-182 or Limp Bizkit (or any band's misbehavior since), they didn't stop until -- it seems -- they got to be old enough to be the fathers of the girls they were encouraging to flash them, which probably even they thought would have been inappropriate.

After Woodstock 1999, if one were to complain at Warped Tour about someone like Blink-182, Limp Bizkit, or Eminem or fan misbehavior and want to talk to someone in charge - and I know about some of the complaints -- one would have been taken to one of those women in charge, or someone with a prominent nonprofit like Keep-a-Breast or be taken for a tour of the Girls Garage or some other women-friendly safe space that Warped had onsite, and if they didnt want to leave they got a free bottle of water and something to do and that helped silence any further complaints. Security / promoters were informed of specific more serious incidents as needed as best as I know.

While I don't think Warped would have been better without the efforts of those women -- it's impossible to prove it made no difference or made things worse -- I don't think they resulted in any change to behavior by bands or fans at Warped Tour. Then as now, they did their job well and looked and sounded great. No one can dispute they were (and are) anything other than the best in the business in what they did and do -- if that's what one focuses on, which is exactly what Warped wanted if one had problems with bands like Blink-182, Limp Bizkit, Eminem, or their fans, from the bands and fans of the time to today. That's what fans who complained and their parents and the media saw back then, and they see much the same thing at Warped today.

Compared to feminist responses to Woodstock 1999 and 00's mysogyny, the efforts I've seen over the last few years to a decade or more coming from within the music scene in response to artists who have behaved far worse and directly with fans from Blood on the Dance Floor to most recently William Control is different. I think a big part of the difference is because there many more women like are interviewed in the New York Times article -- which with mind-numbing longform makes it easy to overlook how it gives less priority to accounts of sexual misconduct than it does to public farting -- women who have their careers connected to performing with bands like that, including artists accused of misconduct on Warped Tour and in other festival scenes, artists that nostalgic pieces like the NYT story will hardly mention. And after Warped Tour is no longer a tour, the network of destination festivals we have today will remain and likely grow, and artists like those interviewed in the NYT story will continue to play with problematic artists and worse at those festivals.

In the early 00's feminist groups, both groups connected with the music scene and older groups that weren't connected were at least issuing press releases, organizing large festivals both independent of and interconnected with scenes like this like Ladyfests, and demonstrating outside of venues and other music industry/business locations. That wasn't just done by a few militant feminist women, there were many men involved in those events and protests as well (fewer men attended or participated at women-focused events like Ladyfests, but some even there) and I felt it was about as multiethnic and trans-inclusive, etc, as it could have been for the time, or at least consistently made a sincere effort at it. I also recall numerous protests organized by real people, in real life, in person with signs and flyers and zines, etc at Limp Bizkit and Blink-182 shows. I can't think of a single protest done like that about artists like BOTDF, Jake McElfresh, or William Control. I'm sure someone could link to a social media post and say something or other is or was a protest action, but I think you can see there's a difference.

There are festivals today similar to the Ladyfests of 15-20 years ago, but they have competition from bigger mainstream festivals that pay artists better like Coachella, Bonnaroo, Pitchfork, Riot Fest, and smaller but similar events which are responding to increasing pressure to diversify their lineups and improve in their policies for artists and fans. Warped Tour is a small part of the festival scene when one considers all of those other shows. There is a profitable, comfortable festival scene for alternative artists, including feminist artists, to play today that wasn't around even at the peak of the touring business in the late 1990s, with multiple touring festivals including Lollapalooza, Warped Tour, Horde, Smoking Grooves, and Lilith Fair on the road. I think that's part of the reason there are fewer protests today and fewer people who try to do things in-person. I don't think social media is at fault any more than Netflix, opoids, or internet mysogyny, it has more to do with people, policies, and business entities that are integral with music scene. In short, it's about as much on the women as it is on the men.

It would be condescending to say that the kind of feminist action I see today has intentionally sold to please the guys in charge. I don't mean to say that at all. I know a lot of people who are speaking out on Warped Tour and connected with other parts of the music scene today, and I'm as sure as I can be many of their efforts are sincere. It's hard though to not wonder though if music industry -- not just Warped but the industry in general -- has found ways to co-opt feminist voices today in ways it didn't in the early 00's.

It's difficult to compare things like this, but I think there's a lot of evidence there was a lot more action taken about the behavior of bands, staff, and fans connected with festivals like Warped Tour and elsewhere maybe 10-20 years ago than there is now. Most young people who care about these things today don't know about what happened back then not so much because young people today wouldn't have known it first hand, but because it's harder to research because it wasn't ever made by anyone or anything on Warped Tour and similar festivals, using the PR platform that Warped and similar festivals have given those Warped want you to remember as associated with on their events, like the women in the New York Times article.

 

"nofxRepost @fatmikedude

• Fuck it! I’m not supposed to talk about it, but because of the comments we made in Las Vegas... every NOFX show has been cancelled in the US. We did not drop off the shows.... we were told that NOFX is not welcome to play ANY big venue in the United States. No joke! NOFX has effectively been banned in our own country. This is not our choice, but it is our reality. We are very sorry to our fans, especially the ones in Austin. For now, we are playing in Europe, Mexico, and Canada. The Punk in Drublic Festival is still happening in Europe and other continents. I’m trying my best to bring it back to the US but a lot of people don’t want it to happen. It fuckin sucks! We made a mistake, we apologized, and we gotta suffer the consequences. Maybe it ain’t fair, but whoever said life was. We are just very thankful that our fans are being so supportive. Thanks to all of you!!!!!
  See y’all in Slovenia tomorrow!
  #punkindrublicinternational
  #whendidpunkrockbecomesosafe
  #IhatednotbeinginOhio"

Ugh.

 

Of course Fat Mike would write something like that.

 

no, fat mike, it's definitely fair

 

Fat Mike makes the cancellation sounds like censorship or political correctness but it may more likely be that even discounted tickets weren't selling well. The only advertising I found online for the last Punk in Drublic USA festival in Austin, TX was on Groupon offering a $52.33 value ticket for $35:

https://www.groupon.com/deals/gl-punk-in-drublic-fest-austin

What looks like a local host or promoter says the cancellation was related to the Las Vegas statements, but they and the band might be the last to want to say it was poor ticket sales:

https://www.craftbeeraustin.com/austin-texas-punk-in-drublic-festival-date-canceled

 

It may have been mentioned earlier but Stone also stopped producing their NOFX collaboration beer

 

Allegation about Maynard James Keenan (quite graphic)

There's a few stories with some similarities on the Tool subreddit as well.

 

Holy hell why did I even look at the other comments on the subreddit. These guys are like "oh no this can't be true, his security organizes a professional harem at every show so shit like this never happens."

like... what... the fuck.... is wrong with everyone???