General Politics Discussion [ARCHIVED] • Page 49

No chair was thrown, even NPR fact-checked their own report of a chair being thrown and later changed the report to a "chair being brandished" (lol). And "Bernie or bust" isn't really about Bernie per se, it's about the party and its presumptive nominee.

 

Trump SCOTUS pick William Pryor would have let states jail LGBT people for having sex in their homes

I'm sure LGBT citizens will love the fact that "Bernie or bust" people took a stand for something when Trump appoints someone like this to the supreme court /s

 

Yeah, better stump for someone who only recently said the Reagans "started a conversation" on AIDS instead.

 

Hurrah false equivalance!

 

There is no rational way that Congress would allow a crazy man to be in the SC. Even if things go in the GOP's favor, that's like writing on the wall with your poop material there.

 

This is the same GOP that is currently trying to tell transgender people where to poop. I certainly wouldn't put it past them and at the very least am not willing to take that risk. Also if that is the kind of person Trump thinks would make a good justice how can you trust his judgement on anything?

 

Think you're getting a bit irrational about it. Like its easy to think that way but let's be realistic, there's no way for the party to survive if they were to act as draconian as that. Plus, you're forgetting just what it is that he's trying to do. He's doing everything he can to drum up support, even by being as extreme as a cartoon character tying someone to the tracks. It keeps his name in the headlines, it keeps you talking about him. You fell for it, basically.

 

Silly me for falling for the fascist act. I should've know he was only pretending to get votes! He's really a normal nice guy!

 

Did I say that? No. I pointed out that's how he's always been throughout his entire career and nothing is changing here. Be hyperbolic if it helps you sleep at night, I guess.

 

It's like watching Joseph Joestar, but in messageboard form.

 

Wow, pretty amazing that Trump would have an extreme conservative on his short list. Totally blindsided by that one.

 

I thought I read that Trump basically asked The Heritage Foundation to make his SC picks for him

 

Politifact had a good write up on the Nevada chaos, rating Jeff Weaver's claims that anything underhand went on as false

Allegations of fraud and misconduct at Nevada Democratic convention unfounded

 

Thanks for clearing that up about the chair.
I would still say "Bernie or bust" is about Bernie. More than a few have been getting tattoos of him for Christ's sake.

 

They've been doing it in all of the states where they acquired total control of the governments. The amount of anti-LGBT, anti-abortion, and anti-voting rights for poor/POC laws being proposed and passed in record numbers in these states since 2010. There's no reason to think that won't go national if/when the GOP takes control of the FedGov. They are convinced it's what the people want and what's best for the country, and their base absolutely wants it. Get voted in only to not do the stuff you're telling the base you'll do gets you Eric Cantor'd.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=hil...j0j8&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

 

While true, I dont think it's comparable by number of people Free Bernie Sanders Tattoos Are Being Offered at Tattoo Shops All Over the Country

 

I don't think this is a widespread trend of people getting Bernie tattooed to themselves, and its even less reliable when it's anecdotal from one shop in Vermont and they're being offered for free. There are lots of things you can point to to show Bernie's supporters' zealotry, this isn't one of them.


also, from 08: Hillary, for free, on your thigh

 

Fair enough, this isn't a hill worth dying on haha. But I do think my overall point stands - I'm concerned about a not insignificant quantity of Bernie supporters

 

do you have any actual data to support your claims that there is A) a significant faction of bernie supporters who are "bernie or bust," meaning they will not vote for clinton and B) that that faction is large enough to be a deciding factor in the election, i.e. if "bernie or bust" people voted for clinton she would win but if they don't she will lose? Or is this all just complete fucking nonsense that you spew at every opportunity?

 

Most recent poll I can find regarding this topic

69% of Sanders supporters would support Clinton as the nominee, 25% would not
79% of Clinton supporters would support Sanders as the nominee, 14% would not

Significant, but not a huge difference, especially since this poll was before Cruz/Kasich dropped out and before Sanders was mathematically eliminated from clinching before the convention

 

On the Bernie or Bust discussion...

CON:
Bernie Sanders or bust? That's a stance based on privilege | Michael Arceneaux

PRO:
Why I say “Bernie or Bust”: If Sanders isn’t the Democratic nominee, his backers should not pull the lever for Hillary Clinton - Salon.com


As a European I know, that my opinion doesn't weigh that much, because I'm only mildly affected by American politics, but after reading some of your comments/ articles like the Salon on above/seeing tumblr Bernie or Bust post with 80.000 or more notes, I'm scared that Bernie supporters actually rather choose to not go vote and let a Trump presidency happen than vote for Hillary, who's not a perfect candidate by any means, but is at least a candidate who agrees on many issues with Sanders, at least more than they disagree on.
And regarding the policies that do affect Europeans as well, like security, I don't want to think about what Trump would do to Syria/Middle East or how the US-Russia foreign policy would evolve during his presidency.

Is Hillary Clinton really ahead of Bernie Sanders by 2.5 million votes?

Hillary leads by 3 million votes by now. It's not like anybody stole the presidency from Sanders or that he has any real chance of winning anymore...

Taken from The Guardian article above: "Cling to your self-righteousness all you want, but be very clear that only some people can afford this kind of sacrifice. I’m not saying fall in line with Hillary Clinton (or Bernie Sanders, should a miracle happen), but there are other ways to express your disapproval besides sitting out the vote altogether.
Push for more progressives at the local and state level. Help rally more voter participation for key congressional races. Do something besides pretending that your lack of vote does anything but suit your own moral superiority at the expense of others."

Is somebody here really considering to not go voting?
If yes, I'm interested in your reasoning
... so thoughts?

 

okay so digging this out, sanders has about 9.9 million votes right now - let's call it 10 mil for simplicity, so 25% = 2.5 million. If those 2.5 million refused to vote for hillary (unlikely, honestly) and she lost the election by 2,499,999 votes, that would be the closest election (in raw numbers) since 1976 (when carter won by 1.7 million), and discounting the 2000 election because Bush would despite a deficit of the popular vote.

If Hillary can't defeat Trump by more than 2.5 million - never mind the fact that those Bernie supporters are likely in the states where she's strongest anyway and probably wouldn't even effect the electoral college results - then she fucked up royally along the way to November.

List of United States presidential elections by popular vote margin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
RealClearPolitics - 2016 Democratic Popular Vote

 

Totally believable. I doubt Trump knows who half those people are.

If Trump wins, it's because he shut out minorities and the poor from the polls in key states via voter suppression - not the demographics that were crooning for Bernie, and certainly not the "privileged BernieorBusters" who think a similar Nader spoiler effect by not voting for HRC would endear the party to the left (instead of make them hate it even more).

[This is my "Vote Hillary" endorsement btw - it can't do the left any good to hold out. Vote Berniecrats in the primaries]

Now, HRC partisans have such huge egos that they wouldn't be able to accept any blame for this and would instantly blame Sanders. Mainly because they are insane.

 

Changing the subject a bit, but this is one of my biggest issues with Sanders' campaign. He has done a shit job of helping potential congressmen who share his views and who had/have a much greater chance at taking office than he does. If he wants a political revolution, he needs to do more than just say so.